Racing Rules: Rights at pin when a gate.

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Rights at pin when a gate.

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Racing Rules
Forum Discription: Discuss the rules and your interpretations here
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11866
Printed Date: 27 Jun 25 at 10:54pm
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Topic: Rights at pin when a gate.

Posted By: piglet
Subject: Rights at pin when a gate.
Date Posted: 22 Jan 15 at 9:35pm

Unresolved shower discussion last week.
When a start/finish line becomes a gate in each beat, for the purpose of taking lap times.
If 2 overlapped boats are approaching the port end pin both on port tack and one boat has overstood does that boat have room rights?
To clarify, this is not at the start or the finish.

Replies:

Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 22 Jan 15 at 9:42pm

I'm curious: what argument was advanced by those who suggested the inside boat was not entitled to mark room?

Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 22 Jan 15 at 10:46pm

Probably that it was the start line... it has happened to me. They learned quickly, and no long words were involved.

Though I do think it is a fault in the rules that a boat which has overstood a mark can sail down and ask for room. It would be more fun if you could luff them the wrong side - except that they would then be somewhat in the way after, I guess...

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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686

Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 23 Jan 15 at 11:12am

Jim, the argument against room being allowed was based on Rule 11.

Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 23 Jan 15 at 11:18am

Still baffled. What was the argument for RRS Part C and Rule 18 *not* applying? It may have been a start line some time before, but they aren't approaching it to start.

Posted By: Andymac
Date Posted: 23 Jan 15 at 11:25am

Originally posted by JimC

Still baffled. What was the argument for RRS Part C and Rule 18 *not* applying? It may have been a start line some time before, but they aren't approaching it to start.

My thoughts also. It was only the 'start line' at the start.

Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 23 Jan 15 at 12:52pm

The preamble to Section C is clear. Section C rules do not apply at a starting mark surrounded by navigable water....from the time boats are approaching them to start until they have passed them.

In this case, the mark is not a starting mark. It is a mark of the course that was (at the start of the race) used as the start mark. The boats are not approaching the mark to start, and, as they have already sailed a lap, they have passed the start mark. Section C rules apply.

The windward boat must keep clear of the leeward boat, however the leeward boat is required to give the windward boat mark room.

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Gordon

Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 23 Jan 15 at 1:40pm

Fairly clear then.

This then also applies to the committee boat when 2 overlapped boats are on Stbd. and obviously when finishing.

Thanks chaps.

Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 23 Jan 15 at 3:07pm

I've had the same on stb with someone trying to drive me into the Committee boat, so much so I had to tack and bale out. When I caught them again they said did you have an overlap? Considering I was looking down their earhole I thought I had !

For information it was a same class boat and it was a straight side by side drag race with our nose overlapped +10X lengths before the gate not a case of me flying in fast and free from nowhere.

BTW. I can't see that the term overstood means a great deal regardless, surely one persons overstood is another's fast n free for better VMG.

Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 23 Jan 15 at 3:10pm

Fast and free is one thing - coming screaming into a mark on a reach from a totally different angle because you can't judge angles or got lost is another. I'm sure we have all done it, though. I find asking nicely helps defuse the situation!

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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686

Posted By: knotty78
Date Posted: 25 Jan 15 at 5:01pm

Before the start there is no proper course. But as soon as the gun is fired there is so keeping room too leward in this period of prestart is key, after this if they are marks/gates Mark room applies