60 kots and flexi masts!!
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11756
Printed Date: 09 Jul 25 at 7:00pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 60 kots and flexi masts!!
Posted By: Guests
Subject: 60 kots and flexi masts!!
Date Posted: 14 Nov 14 at 3:24pm
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You are going to love this. Friday special courtesy of Yachting World Scratching my head thinking this one through and wondering who came up with this rig. Seems to have a stay at the top of the mast and huge flexibility at the mid point. Generates significant depowering as seem to be sheeted in when reaching. Would love to have a go........ Discuss http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRSw73AC4gk |
Replies:
Posted By: MerlinMags
Date Posted: 14 Nov 14 at 3:36pm
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It does look crazy, but they've been going damn fast for many years, so must be doing something right.
[TUBE]cRSw73AC4gk[/TUBE] Standing starts too! |
Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 14 Nov 14 at 3:39pm
| Not sure about the mast bend but surely they are sheeted in as they are sailing on a fairly extreme apparant wind? |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 14 Nov 14 at 3:39pm
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I love that they go so fast they don't sheet out even a little bit when bearing away, and I agree that I don't understand how the mast works, but it must be fast! As for having a go - maybe... looks like it would hurt when it went wrong! ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 14 Nov 14 at 3:48pm
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Its a fairly "conventional" over rotating semi wing mast except that normally we wet water sailors put diamonds on to control the low down bend. A Tasar mast ith the diamonds disconnected would bend in a similar way until it went bang.
The extreme mast bend gives excellent control of the leech and twist without huge amounts of kicker. Hard to explain why in a para, but trust me, it does. Thoe hounds are somewhere like 2/3 or 3/4 the way up. Because ice boats are so very fast they generate unbelievable (to us) amounts of apparent wind which is why they are sheeted in so hard all the time. Needless to say they never run square, always gybe downwind. From what I can make out to go upwind you just point the boat at the right angle and wait for it to slow down enough for the sail to set! I'd love a go, I think... |
Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 14 Nov 14 at 3:53pm
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Having competed in 2 european championships in these boats I can tell you that they are effing quick! The kids race in optimist rigged ones which do 50 knots. Back in those days we had custom designed flat and heavier sails. The Polish, estonian, swedish sailors just used their old practice sails mostly. Suppose that was fair, they had time on the ice, we had nice sails.... The reason the DN masts bend like that is that they are now all Glass fibre. The alloy ones don't do this and are far too twitchy to be fast these days. You are running huge sheet loads, probably twice that of a wet boat. Have a go, if you want to know how i can see if i can get hold of the Swedish Ice sailing lot for you, they have a trailer full of boats that you can use, i think for free. That's how it used to be anyway!
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Posted By: rodney
Date Posted: 14 Nov 14 at 4:00pm
+1 ------------- Rodney Cobb Suntouched Sailboats Limited http://www.suntouched.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.suntouched.co.uk [EMAIL=rodney@suntouched.co.uk">rodney@suntouched.co.uk |
Posted By: PeterG
Date Posted: 14 Nov 14 at 4:04pm
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You wouldn't want to be run over by one of those doing 60kts though! ------------- Peter Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59 |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 14 Nov 14 at 4:45pm
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They do look quick.. I wonder what would happen if you sailed them properly, standing up canting a free sail rig to weather, either way I'd love a go, have tried the ones with wheels on they can be a blast as well doesn't the Farr 37 guy do it, Jack Sparrow? ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 14 Nov 14 at 5:07pm
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Yep, iGRF I do. But I have never ice yachted. This weekend is one of Brean Landyacht Clubs Regatta's as part of the British Championships. So go and have a look. Mini yachts, Standart's, Class 5, Class 3 will be racing. The apparent wind generated is amazing. Once you have momentum you are sheeted in to the centreline both up and downwind. ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: Steve411
Date Posted: 14 Nov 14 at 5:28pm
Is that both days Jack? Might come and have a watch as I'm only 10 miles away. ------------- Steve B RS300 411 https://www.facebook.com/groups/55859303803" rel="nofollow - RS300 page |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 14 Nov 14 at 5:34pm
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Yep both days, they have had a acclimatisation day today. ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: rodney
Date Posted: 14 Nov 14 at 6:05pm
1926, before windsurfing was even thought of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yVWg7-KFe0  1926------------- Rodney Cobb Suntouched Sailboats Limited http://www.suntouched.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.suntouched.co.uk [EMAIL=rodney@suntouched.co.uk">rodney@suntouched.co.uk |
Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 14 Nov 14 at 6:13pm
| Was everything black and white in 1926 Rodney??? Was that the year you started sailing? |
Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 14 Nov 14 at 6:14pm
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I guess lack of leeway increases mast bend?
------------- Needs to sail more... |
Posted By: rodney
Date Posted: 14 Nov 14 at 6:17pm
Ask Graeme  How would I know, 43 years old and going strong  ------------- Rodney Cobb Suntouched Sailboats Limited http://www.suntouched.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.suntouched.co.uk [EMAIL=rodney@suntouched.co.uk">rodney@suntouched.co.uk |
Posted By: rodney
Date Posted: 14 Nov 14 at 6:20pm
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Whoaah! I just discovered that Skatesailing actually started in 1887.
------------- Rodney Cobb Suntouched Sailboats Limited http://www.suntouched.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.suntouched.co.uk [EMAIL=rodney@suntouched.co.uk">rodney@suntouched.co.uk |
Posted By: AlexM
Date Posted: 14 Nov 14 at 6:24pm
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When it gets cold at our place they turn up :-)
http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/155181/British-DN-Ice-Yacht-Championships" rel="nofollow - http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/155181/British-DN-Ice-Yacht-Championships |
Posted By: I luv Wight
Date Posted: 14 Nov 14 at 7:24pm
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The low down mast bend gives downforce onto the skates so they track properly ( ie the opposite of windsurf/kite style lift ) ------------- " rel="nofollow - http://www.bloodaxeboats.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.bloodaxeboats.co.uk Andy P foiling Int Moth GBR3467 Freedom 21 Codling |
Posted By: NickM
Date Posted: 15 Nov 14 at 1:06pm
Yes, you might well ask.  It is all Y&Y's fault. In 1981 they ran an article about how the Dutch were wind-skating on frozen canals and published a detailed diagram of the boards they were using - sort of triangular made out of reinforced marine ply on three inch skates. I was going to spend a winter in Poland so made a copy and take it with me. It was rubbish. It would not work at all if there was any snow on the ice - this pic was on the the only snow-free day I tried it. (Maybe it was that rig too...) The Polish windskaters were then using tubular A-frames about 5 feet across with metal tubes turned up at the front which coped with the snow. In the end a local sailor took pity on me and let me his DN for 20 minutes which was amazing. 
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Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 15 Nov 14 at 5:24pm
A winter in Poland in in 1981, Nick? Were you a spy or a union agitator? ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 17 Nov 14 at 9:46am
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slight deviation but... if you like that idea this may be up someones street... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8IRgrI7Fkg [TUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8IRgrI7Fkg[/TUBE] [TUBE]www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8IRgrI7Fkg[/TUBE] [TUBE]v=W8IRgrI7Fkg[/TUBE] [TUBE]W8IRgrI7Fkg[/TUBE] OK so this code stuff still doesn't work, even when I follow Matt K advice! I've put pretty much every option between the [TUBE] codes and it don't work! ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |