2014 Endeavour Trophy
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11738
Printed Date: 10 Jul 25 at 1:45am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 2014 Endeavour Trophy
Posted By: craiggo
Subject: 2014 Endeavour Trophy
Date Posted: 29 Oct 14 at 9:37pm
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So this weekend is the Endeavour Trophy and the runners and riders are:
1 29er Matt Venables & Curtis Meams 2 Firefly Paul Kameen & Caroline Edwards 3 2000 Rob Burridge & Katie Burridge 4 Mirror Rachel Grayson & Nigel Wakefield 5 Musto Skiff Bruce Keen & Lucy Terkelson 6 Osprey Matt Burge & Toby Lewis 7 RS800 Roger Phillips & Will Crocker 8 Graduate Tony Cooper & Sam Cooper 9 GP14 Ian Dobson & Andy Ticklecliffe 10 Cadet Alex Page & Aaron Chadwick 11 18 foot Skiff Simon Hiscocks & Nick Murray 12 RS300 Steve Bolland & Tim Keen 13 Hornet Will McGrath & Sam Woolner 14 Lark Charlie Roome & Jeremy Stephens 15 RS Feva Bobby Hewitt & Harvey Martin 16 4000 Jason Kirk & Scott Dawson 17 Merlin Rocket Matt Mee & Tom Pygall 18 Blaze Ben Pickering & Sam Knight 19 National 12 Tom Stewart & Andrea Downham 20 Streaker Tom Gillard & Sam Brearey So whos gonna win. My money is on Tom Gillard although I do hope that Tony & Sam Cooper do well for the Graduate class. A lot will depend on who gets used to the Topper Argos the quickest. |
Replies:
Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 29 Oct 14 at 10:35pm
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No Nick Craig! That'll make it far easier for someone new to get their name on the trophy ------------- http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here |
Posted By: Simon Lovesey
Date Posted: 30 Oct 14 at 7:46am
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Matt Burge worth a punt Multiple class champion including Fireball Worlds Competed in several Endeavours (best result 3rd), this year has teamed up with Nick Craig's crew Toby Lewis who has won the trophy several times
------------- http://www.sailracer.org" rel="nofollow - www.sailracer.org Online Sailing Results, GPS Tracking & Event Management |
Posted By: Old Timer
Date Posted: 30 Oct 14 at 2:39pm
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Well the event has lived up to its usual hype ... i.e. none ... shame really as it is a great event and worthy of more coverage. My forecast: Merlin Rocket Matt Mee & Tom Pygall Osprey Matt Burge & Toby Lewis 2000 Rob Burridge & Katie Burridge Although I'm not sure how Matt Mee is on the list as he is not the Merlin Rocket National Champion and I believe this is defined as a helmsmans event; the crew Tom Pygall won the nationals. 4000 has to be the softest attendee with just 13 boats at their nationals. With no Craig, Carveth, Gilbert, Birrell or Bithell it could be one of the most open events for a while .... |
Posted By: JohnJack
Date Posted: 30 Oct 14 at 3:25pm
| Tom Gillard is coming in on good form, Won the Scorpions,Fireballs and Streakers this year. Sailing with Sam Brearey who he won the Scorpions with. Sam will be just back from Santander where he was crewing a 470 at the ISAF Worlds. |
Posted By: furtive
Date Posted: 30 Oct 14 at 4:07pm
18 foot skiff anyone? And I'd like to see you telling Scott Dawson he's the softest attendee at anything...
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Posted By: Old Timer
Date Posted: 30 Oct 14 at 4:12pm
I think the 18ft Skiff is a special case; and as the rep has two Olympic medals I think that is fair enough ... The 4000 is a very small class these days that is all I was observing; no doubt they are excellent sailors and will feature high in the results.
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 30 Oct 14 at 5:05pm
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There must be loads of classes with higher attendence than the 4000 (even the Minisail had 12 entries, so got close), so again I'm left confused about who issues the invites and why? Does it depend upon who is marketing the boat? ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 30 Oct 14 at 5:29pm
| Rupert, I don't think you should assume that those were the only people invited. They might have had quite a few refusals before they got to the final list. Neither venue nor format are everyone's cup of tea. |
Posted By: jaydub
Date Posted: 30 Oct 14 at 5:44pm
| Perhaps the lack of big name attendees says something about the Argo. Looks like a bit of a dog from what I can see. |
Posted By: Old Timer
Date Posted: 30 Oct 14 at 5:48pm
I doubt the craft has any impact on the attendance I expect it is just a matter of timing; given it is half term I expect people with families may well be on holiday. Topper are to be applauded for supporting the event as well as the other sponsors.
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Posted By: AlexM
Date Posted: 30 Oct 14 at 5:49pm
| Without this thread i wouldn't of known the event was going ahead.... or that a Topper Argo even existed! |
Posted By: Old Timer
Date Posted: 30 Oct 14 at 5:55pm
Indeed; the PR output from the event is very poor. This is a prestigious event; probably the only dinghy event where you can get a great view from the shore ... it should be all over the media. If you have a chance go and watch ...
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Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 30 Oct 14 at 6:34pm
https://www.toppersailboats.com/the-boats/#argo" rel="nofollow - https://www.toppersailboats.com/the-boats/#argo Allegedly faster than a Xenon, and, at 110kg hull weight, lighter than a 2k, though you wouldn't think so to look at it. But at least everyone should find it easy to sail. Doesn't look like it should need a lot of lard, but being heavy already, it might not penalise it too much either. ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: laser4000
Date Posted: 30 Oct 14 at 8:43pm
| did someone say vago.. no wait argo.. |
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 30 Oct 14 at 9:45pm
| Hmmm - not sure I trust the Topper specs. The Xenon is listed with a white sail area of 16 sqm, but add them up and you get 13 something. I've also pulled and lifted a Xenon.....it's not lighter than a 2K I'm pretty sure, although it's said to be. The Argo might be but it's smaller. Kite look awfully small and high cut. Reachy reachy time on the Crouch. |
Posted By: Old Timer
Date Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 10:19am
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Whatever ... good on Topper for supporting this event. I don't think it is fair to run down their products here given they are putting plenty of money into this event. lets get back to the predictions ... who is brave enough to have a go at forecasting the top 3?
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Posted By: JohnJack
Date Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 10:24am
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Yep, most definitely, well done for Topper backing the event Otherwise it would probably be ran on Handicap and the dreaded PY system And we all know how much that is hated. I do think however they should split out 1 ups and 2 ups Would enable them to showcase one of the Toppers single handed range. |
Posted By: Old Timer
Date Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 10:50am
No ... all in ... Champion of Champions; simple ... no categories just the best of the best ... it is the simplicity of the format that makes it ...
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Posted By: JohnJack
Date Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 11:05am
But the crews in the single handed boats are not Champions. It kind of diminishes the role of a crew don't you think?
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Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 11:14am
| The Merlin fleet is being represented by a championship crew. Which i think is great! shows its not only the helms that take the glory! |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 11:36am
| Also it is the final Silver Tiller elsewhere this weekend, |
Posted By: Old Timer
Date Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 11:58am
No not at all ... a single handed champ has to find a good crew to compete against the double handed champion set-up. For sure no-one will win this without a good crew.
Yes that is fair comment ... but I always thought that they would not accept an entry from a non-champion helm. Although crews of course deserve recognition.
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Posted By: gordon1277
Date Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 4:47pm
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I am sure most single handed champs are equally adept two handed boats after all.
Nick Craig, Jim Hunt, Andy Davis, Geoff Carveth to name a few can cope. ------------- Gordon Lossc |
Posted By: ChrisJ
Date Posted: 01 Nov 14 at 6:40pm
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Results: http://royalcorinthian.co.uk/result/2014-11-776-0/
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Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 01 Nov 14 at 7:33pm
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Interesting that the first two asymmetric class helms (Feva & 2k) come from low-powered, slow asys who are used to soaking a lot of the time downwind, comparable probably to an Argo, especially on a F.3-4 day like today. I wonder if the others tried to heat things up too much. ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: OultonBen
Date Posted: 02 Nov 14 at 2:05pm
Yes, last year's 'outstanding winner' was going to represent his favourite single-hander, until he discovered the timing ..... The event this time around having been unexpectedly brought forward in the year into half-term, and he's a commendably conscientious 'dad', so he declined the invitation. ------------- No-one can squeeze past ..... when you're as "Chunky" as myself ! |
Posted By: Old Timer
Date Posted: 02 Nov 14 at 2:06pm
| Protests going on now ... |
Posted By: OultonBen
Date Posted: 02 Nov 14 at 2:45pm
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Burge, Mee, Dobson, Roome, Gillard ..... (in that order, after 8-races). (i) There's a turn-up, that Gillard is not leading the pack ? (ii) Fireball is not specifically represented, ha-haaa ..... so what other Class have/are at least 4-of these helms prominent in ? ------------- No-one can squeeze past ..... when you're as "Chunky" as myself ! |
Posted By: OultonBen
Date Posted: 02 Nov 14 at 2:57pm
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This event used to be a Champion-of-Champions. My personal straw-poll of Grown-Ups' classes which are represented, out of a list of eligible ones (~in my mind) gives a figure of only 21%. Then there's also the issue of barring runners-up, even where a Class champion is representing a different Class, while crews are permitted and anyone can take anyone else from the sailing world as 2nd in the boat. This year's programme of invitations resulted in a last minute struggle to get at least one of the current top-4 invited, but as late as early this week ! ------------- No-one can squeeze past ..... when you're as "Chunky" as myself ! |
Posted By: Oinks
Date Posted: 02 Nov 14 at 7:20pm
| There's a constant in this and recent past results. The helms are just passengers... Toby Lewis... he's won the Endeavour for the people the sailed with. You won't here from him on this forum. Cos he just gets out there and does it. James Stewart too. |
Posted By: ohFFsake
Date Posted: 02 Nov 14 at 9:50pm
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Pretty close finish with two of the top 5 positions decided by tie-break! I might be a bit biased as I know her, but stand-out performance for me was 16 year old Rachel Grayson, this year's Mirror National and European champion. Finishing 6th and never out of the top ten in any race despite being way below optimum weight for the boat in what looked pretty breezy conditions, not to mention first time helming a boat with an assymetric.  |
Posted By: Old Timer
Date Posted: 02 Nov 14 at 10:33pm
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Yes, Rachel's performance was impressive. The only female helm and just 16!! She will go far.
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Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 10:10am
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This will be why the Fireballs had no rep there (well not directly, most of the top 3 or 4 have campaigned a Fireball over the last few years). http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/179882/Fireball-Inlands-at-Chew-Valley-Lake" rel="nofollow - http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/179882/Fireball-Inlands-at-Chew-Valley-Lake ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: Simon Lovesey
Date Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 10:21am
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The top three from the 2014 Fireball Nationals were all present at the Endeavour, but champion Tom Gillard there on behalf of the Streakers http://sailracer.org/ResultsEntry/ResultViewer/106813/Fireball%20National%20Championships" rel="nofollow - http://sailracer.org/ResultsEntry/ResultViewer/106813/Fireball%20National%20Championships Shows the quality of the FB fleet ------------- http://www.sailracer.org" rel="nofollow - www.sailracer.org Online Sailing Results, GPS Tracking & Event Management |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 10:40am
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Like the Merlin it seems to attract a 'who's who' of the top UK dinghy sailors. ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: VeeBee200
Date Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 2:44pm
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Topper have achieved their goal of using the Endeavour Trophy to get the word around about their new boat the ARGO .... as it is the first time i have seen this class. I do question why they choose such a similar logo to an existing class? ARGO / VAGO ? Even the colours are the same and could be misinterpreted on a start/finish line. ------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder. ---------------------------------------------------------------- VeeBee Vago#200 |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 3:49pm
Which is really quite tragic isn't it? Hardly a showcase for all that's good about the sport, some 50 year old scow that was never anything more than a jack the lad boat in its hey day... No wonder two hander sales are dwindling ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 3:57pm
what would you recommend instead? An RS500? One of those Asbo's like yours which is falling apart.... Back in the day, the Fireball was the everyman's alternative to the 505. It knew its place, and it's survived the asymmetric revolution- which was nothing more than a damp squib of 90's pink and purple AUDI sponsored marketing, and it's back again with a vengeance- at club and national level. The recent World Championships in Barbados really was one of those events you read about that frankly, you know you've missed out on. I've sailed a Fireball three times in my life- one of the best rides I've had as a crew going.
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Posted By: JohnJack
Date Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 3:59pm
It kind of shows that anything produced since has missed the mark a little doesn't it
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Posted By: iiitick
Date Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 4:03pm
Ah...I have the answer to the demise of the double hander. Yesterday I crewed for a 25 year old girl in my Tasar, makes all the difference!
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Posted By: iiitick
Date Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 4:05pm
| I really think that someone should take a decent Winder Fireball to Hythe, clip GRF on the wire and blast off in a big breeze, that would blow his crash hat off! |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 4:09pm
Well yes and no, there are two handers but they are marketed by cottage Industry guys without the resources to do what is necessary, like supply this brilliant event with a half decent boat that would be aspirational instead of a charisma reducing charade hence everyone scurrying back to old pairs of slippers they feel comfortable in. Had the Alto been the boat used in that event, with its tactical options of soaking or heating up, or even a weight carrying version of the 29er. That there is a gaping great hole in the market for a decent modern wash through two hander I am completely in agreement with. As it is all the folk capable of mass marketing one seem pre occupied with single handers or washing up bowls made for two. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 4:12pm
I wouldn't go in it, it is OH. EL. DEE.! It looks old has zero style and is pig ugly even the kite looks like an over filled colostomy sac.. What should happen more of you lot should have tried the Alto and by now, maybe they would have had the resources to make it wash through and rig the forestay above the kite chute which would make it perfect. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 4:22pm
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And yet it was faster than a K6 on a close reach last weekend - I know this because my arms werebeing pulled from their sockets playing the K6 kite, yet the cruised on by. When we were able to bear away it was a different story, but the boat really is very quick for a boat described as above... Rupertson was heard to wonder about sailing one, and he normally just rabbits on about 29ers, and finds my taste in old scows rather embarrassing. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 4:46pm
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Why am I even going to ask what a K6 is and why would you be abusing poor Rupertson making him go in one, thereby giving him a complex and probably ensuring he becomes an EMO and never sails anything again.. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 4:52pm
One of these: ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 5:22pm
wow, that is some jib-luff sag - dread to think what the mast is looking like ------------- http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 5:33pm
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The guy who's boat we were crewing had me yanking the jib tension on when we had the kite up - I can see why now!
------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 9:01pm
Er not really. IMO the reason MR and FB attract good sailors is that they offer fantastic sailing, close racing and don't stretch the budget quite as far as 505's or i14's. They're developed, the systems work well, both are effectively almost-one-design in that one builder dominates and there is a choice of optimised spar-sail combos for different crew weights and sizes. Would love to have the cash to join them!
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 04 Nov 14 at 9:16am
MMmm not such a bad looking thing, unless of course there is lead involved, you were not endangering poor Rupertson with lead poisoning I trust? <checks the number of child line> ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 04 Nov 14 at 11:20am
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Without the lead, we wuld have been swimming a lot. The boat can still be laid flat even with the keel, so seems like a fair compromise.
------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |