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Protecting my knees

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Technique
Forum Discription: 'How to' section for dinghy questions and answers
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11726
Printed Date: 25 Jun 25 at 12:48am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Protecting my knees
Posted By: ifoxwell
Subject: Protecting my knees
Date Posted: 20 Oct 14 at 10:11am
Ok so i know I should straight leg hike etc etc

But after a couple of years away form dinghys i'm thinking of getting back into one and i am worried about hurting my knees, over extending the joint or what ever it is that we do through poor technique.

Any one any good advise on how I can protect them?

Ian


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RS300



Replies:
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 20 Oct 14 at 10:21am
Buy a K1...

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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 20 Oct 14 at 10:21am
Perch.

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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: ifoxwell
Date Posted: 20 Oct 14 at 10:25am
Yup that would work except i want to get another Blaze.... and I just wont be able to stop myself.

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RS300


Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 20 Oct 14 at 10:58am
Fire sail....?  

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Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 20 Oct 14 at 11:12am
NOt sure there is any way to particularly protect your knees.  I guess after a break it may be worth conditioning your legs for hiking.  So maybe investing in a hiking bench and work on some hiking exercises.  If you build up strength in the muscles that will help protect the joint.


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 20 Oct 14 at 11:23am
Leg conditioning is always a help but if you do not have time to do additonal fitness just learn to recognise the signs of fatigue in the legs.

A good pair of hikers will help reduce fatigue as will getting the toe straps set up correctly (I moved mine all the time in the Blaze and never really got it quite how I wanted it).

There is a 3rd option.....possibly the most comfy hiking single hander at the moment..... ;-)


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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 20 Oct 14 at 11:55am

>third option

The IC presumably...


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 20 Oct 14 at 12:06pm
Originally posted by JimC


>third option

The IC presumably...

would we call an IC a hiker Jim..... Wink

But yes something like that is always an option.....if wet.


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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: ifoxwell
Date Posted: 20 Oct 14 at 1:06pm
I do like IC's, had one in the past and will no doubt get one again in the future, but here and now, with a small and growing fleet of Blazes on the Medway its gotta be a Blaze.

Ian


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RS300


Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 20 Oct 14 at 2:30pm
Join Pevensey.
There seems to be a gentlemans agreement amoungst our Blaze (mini)fleet to not do anything that may be considered leaning out.
I wondered if the fleet had jury boats at national events dishing out 720's to anyone who put their toes anywhere near the straps?
 
Buy a Contender, better boat all round.


Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 20 Oct 14 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by JimC


>third option

The IC presumably...

Nope, definitely the d one.

Fitness is the only way to protect the knees.  Cycling is probably the best form of exercise to achieve this.  I finished off my knee cartilage at the Dutch contender nationals last year - marginal trapezing followed by pivoting under the boom. The resultant damage meant surgery.   I hasten to say all this was preceded by a lifetime of over exercise, basketball and sailing 470s wearing a weight jacket.

I made it bad again last week bring forced to sail picos and crew an rs vision in light winds and have resolved to get out the balance board and the bike, as well as sell the contender and focus on the knee friendly d one.


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the same, but different...



Posted By: ifoxwell
Date Posted: 20 Oct 14 at 2:58pm
Originally posted by piglet

 
Buy a Contender, better boat all round.

Well thats bound to get a reaction but true or false, its not better in a fleet of Blazes


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RS300


Posted By: ifoxwell
Date Posted: 20 Oct 14 at 3:07pm
Squash, Tennis players etc were those bandages over joints to help support them.

Do they work, and is there nothing like that which will help us?

Ian


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RS300


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 21 Oct 14 at 6:55am
I tried wearing a knee support (the type with the patella hole) but found it just never stayed in place, there is just too much rang of movement for it to be effective when sailing.

My 3/4 length hikers do a good job of supporting my knees though and the give an essential bit of knee padding too.


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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 21 Oct 14 at 7:31am
Originally posted by jeffers

I tried wearing a knee support (the type with the patella hole) but found it just never stayed in place, there is just too much rang of movement for it to be effective when sailing.

My 3/4 length hikers do a good job of supporting my knees though and the give an essential bit of knee padding too.

Totally agree.


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the same, but different...



Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 21 Oct 14 at 8:35am
Try yoga, too.

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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 21 Oct 14 at 9:34am
agree with Jeffers- I tried knee supports, and wear a hinged support when snowboarding on proper mountains, but for sailing they just get squashed and off centre- probably not doing a dodgy knee any favours at all really.

FWIW - and it could be the boat as much as the hikers, but I had no knee trouble at all in my Solo.  I always wore my Sandiline Hikers- which are compression grade 'kneeoprene'  for superior support.  Yes, they are more expensive than the usual brands, but 1) they actually work really well 2) they are very well built so won't fall apart in a season 3) the weigh very little (weigh a set of Magic Marine hikers and tell me if you want to add the dead weight!)

Honestly, I can't recommend them highly enough.

http://www.suntouched.co.uk/suntouchedsailboats_002.htm#hikingpants" rel="nofollow - http://www.suntouched.co.uk/suntouchedsailboats_002.htm#hikingpants


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Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 21 Oct 14 at 10:18am
You've seen this, Ian?:
http://www.roostersailing.com/articles/Hiking_Style.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.roostersailing.com/articles/Hiking_Style.html

I can give you some exercises that turned my knees from ones that flopped out of joint into bombproof ones. My knees are much better now than in 1993, pre-exercises, despite hiking and indeed weeks of sailing Lasers in Minorca (actually, I felt that correct, straight-leg hiking improved my knees while recovering from a cartilage op. that I might never have needed had I done the exercises earlier).

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http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC
http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class


Posted By: starlite617
Date Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 12:46pm
My left knee needs more than protecting. I am due to have a left total knee replacement (TKR) in four weeks time. My orthopaedic surgeon is against dinghy sailing afterwards.  He believes, that the cement that binds the metalwork to the bone will shear prematurely (after 6 or 7 years) under the torsional loads on the knee in dinghy sailing. I've come down through a series of boats to a Streaker and don't think I experience any torsional loads on my knee (and I've just ordered a new sale from P&B!). In the last 15 months I've found hiking to be OK, certainly much more comfortable than the bone-on-bone on pain from walking.

 I'm looking for general advice, but an orthopaedic surgeon who sails a Streaker would be a bonus!


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Starlite


Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 1:07pm
I wonder how vital hiking is at club level, starlite.  

Looking around, I see lots of people getting perfectly acceptable results without doing much more than perching with no load on the knees at all.  Currently rehabilitating my hip (broken in a bike crash), I'm finding the Miracle I'm borrowing seems to go just fine with me sat on the side.  I'd like to hike it, but am now not so convinced it would bring a lot, especially when the big gains are made by spotting wind shifts and gusts, and sailing in the right direction, something that is appreciably easier sat upright.

Frankly, I'd be more concerned about twisting my knee tacking, especially since I tore my cartilage on a Laser 2 and had to have an op. (21 years ago and all fine now with the right exercises).  I'd really urge you to get a good physio (or two) and learn a good set of exercises to develop the muscles all around the knee - the ones on the sides are small but critical, and easily overlooked.


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http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC
http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class


Posted By: starlite617
Date Posted: 08 Nov 14 at 4:08pm
Medway Maniac, Thanks for the reply. I left a lot out of my post - thought it was long enough anyway. I have had knee problems for 12 years plus and done loads of physio, on and off. Latest problem started 16 months ago and I have been doing exercises 6 days/week.
Don't believe that perching works in singlehanders.
I was hoping for information from someone who had had a knee replacement or knew someone. What advice did they receive from their ortho. surgeon (OS).  I cannot recall experiencing any twisting on my knee in any singlehander (Laser, Moth, 300, Vortex, Contender, Supernova). Can't believe that my OS made it up however. He is a great guy.
Roger


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Starlite


Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 08 Nov 14 at 11:17pm
The wider the beam. the less percentage difference hiking makes c.f. perching.  Thus while it may be de rigeur for a Laser, maybe it is less critical on a Blaze?

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http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC
http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class


Posted By: wolfram
Date Posted: 19 Sep 21 at 9:15am
Resurrecting old thread! I've been watching this video on building a hiking bench. https://youtu.be/W2aATp-QEa8


https://youtu.be/W2aATp-QEa8" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/W2aATp-QEa8

Is this a good idea? Any thoughts?

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Wolfram


Posted By: Cirrus
Date Posted: 19 Sep 21 at 4:38pm
......maybe it is less critical on a Blaze

Not that you would notice !  Racing even at club level and certainly above requires the helm to 'use' the  width advantage or lose out to at least any other Blaze that does use it as intended.  The wing system does weight something like 8-9kg in total and there is obviously additional windage... so you need to use it or lose out.    It is however pretty comfortable and as someone who has had an occasional nagging knee problem following a motorbike accident several decades ago I rate it better than any other singlehander I have owned/raced... might be different for other folks of course.


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 21 Sep 21 at 9:08am
The difference between perching and hiking hard in a Blaze must be less than on, say, a Laser but it definitely makes a significant difference upwind. But it is much more comfortable than on most boats and, like Mike, I rate the Blaze the best boat I've ever owned.



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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 21 Sep 21 at 2:29pm
A sailing physio told me that you should rotate from perch position, your butt should never be off the side, the weight of your legs will almost balance you, feet under the straps will do the rest. Always worked for me, never had knee pain since.

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Robert


Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 22 Sep 21 at 10:15am
One page and I can see an oft repeated fallacy twice….

It is true that you don’t have to hike a wide boat as much to make it sail…:

But the wider the boat the more it will magnify the competitive impact of hiking.



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