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Why do dinghy sailors never train?

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
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URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11697
Printed Date: 10 Jul 25 at 8:39am
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Topic: Why do dinghy sailors never train?
Posted By: L123456
Subject: Why do dinghy sailors never train?
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 10:12am
Most clubs people club race then return ashore.

Most other sports people train / practice for 80% of the time and race 20%

Rough guesses ... but why?



Replies:
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 10:17am
time- if I had more time to sail, I'd choose to race.  

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Posted By: Steve411
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 10:29am
I've never understood it, but personally I do quite a lot of practice/training (it's easier I find with a singlehander). I guess I probably do twice as much training as racing, but probably more racing in the winter when training alone can be a bit miserable, though there can be a certain masochistic satisfaction doing an hour's practice in freezing conditions in January knowing you've got one over on your main rivals!

I quite enjoy taking myself off for a few hours but that may just be me (billy no mates). I didn't mean it to sound quite like that but you get my drift.


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Steve B
RS300 411

https://www.facebook.com/groups/55859303803" rel="nofollow - RS300 page


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 10:35am
If you're not that bothered about winning, and the racing is more fun than the training, then why not...


Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 10:35am
yep- I get that.  Nothing better sometimes than a day on the water with your toys without human contact beyond the perfunctory 'I'm here safe' and 'I'm on my way home' text messages.  

That might extend to 'a sausage roll please' at a cafe, but really nothing else- no email, no phone calls, no phatic discourse with work people.    

I know you're supposed to say things like 'being at one with nature', but actually I just mean 'switch off' and rest of the world can go F8ck itself for a few measly self-indulgent hours on a boat or a board.  


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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 10:44am
I think if you are serious about training, with an end goal in mind then you need a training partner, sailing alone is bloody boring.

I guess that these days it could be argued that the end goal of total success is so far above attainability by average joe that there seems no point.

Which is totally wrong, the thing that most appealed to me about sailing all those years ago, was that however good folk were, however much they spent, God would send in a swerve, deny one side of the beat wind and give it to the other and they'd suddenly be down the back and you'd be up the front.
In certain conditions of course.

Then I come up against girls like that Europe sailor that has done the Squad thing to Olympic level (the other girl went) and I realise, there is no chance, too late pal, thirty years ago, maybe

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Posted By: Presuming Ed
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 10:54am
Originally posted by L123456

Most clubs people club race then return ashore.

Most other sports people train / practice for 80% of the time and race 20%

Rough guesses ... but why?

Some sports are training sports - where training is doing the sport. Others are competing sports.

E.g. Rowing is a training sport. When I was a club oarsman, we trained 20 hrs a week from Sept/Oct until July. Total time spent racing during the year? Two or three hours or so. 

I would guess that most tennis club members spend more time playing than practicing. Likewise many club rugby players run out a couple of evenings a week, and play at weekends. Ditto Sunday football.

At the higher levels, of course, more time is spent training than competing in all sports. 


Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 11:00am
Think we have had a similar thread before.  I don't understand why i see so few people training.  Especially given the investment people make in kit.  For me its a time thing, always has been.  However i consider cycling and gym work as training for sailing.  I find it helps with concentration as well as fitness.  I also think improved strength and fitness is going to give me more in terms of performance increase then practising tacking, gybing etc.  Thats working on the basis you are proficient in the first place.  I am fitter now then i have been for a number of years and following a year off sailing i am ready to give the winter and next year a good shot.  Now I am in a new class i will however have to train to get race fit.  By that i mean learn how to tack and gybe the boat quickly and effectively.  As well as get an understanding of whats fast and not.  However the Zero is a simple boat so i dont think it will take long to crack.  Club racing will be sufficient practice for this.  We will probably have 12 months until a full on sailing open calender is established for the zero so i have time to crack it!


Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 11:02am
The good ones do train

There is loads that can be achieved in just an hour on the water.

Far more beneficial that sitting around waiting to start, getting caught up with another load of boats.

Granted - you need racing but some aspects of your sailing just cant be improved when you are surrounded by other racing boats. So its coming to a sensible balance of the two.

Its no mystery- the better sailors do train way more than race - like all sports ?

Tennis was used as an example of a 'competing' sport - its not - its a training sport like all the others (darts, snooker, running, cycling etc) - very simple really


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 11:33am
Time is the answer for me.

I used to go to the gym 3 or 4 times a week to get my base fitness up which in turn improved my sailing as I was not getting as fatigued throughout a race. Now I simply do not have the time and prefer to spend that time enjoying sailing and racing as this is my hobby.

Were I serious about it and wanting to compete at a higher level then yes I would train because I would have to. 


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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: bustinben
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 11:45am
The people at the front of the fleet in a competitive class are also the ones who are training.  Most people don't have time, and squeezing in the racing is all they can do.
 
The closer you want to get towards being competitive at olympic/international level, the more the balance needs to swing towards training.  Not that you reduce the racing, you just sail a hell of a lot more so the balance naturally shifts to training.

There's also no such thing as "cracking it" in my opinion.  You're never going to be 100% perfect in  execution of the techniques you've chosen, and also the techniques themselves are never going to be 100% optimal.

If it was possible to "crack it" then you wouldn't see any development in technique in simple boats like the laser.  And yet you do.  Year on year people are incrementally changing the way they sail and how fast they can go.  If you only do handicap racing at a club level or local opens etc, you might not get to see this side of things!  Believe me though, it is possible for your boat to go faster on every point of sail and in every condition than you have ever made it go.  It's as true for you as it is for Giles Scott.


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 11:48am
I spent the weekend at WPNSA training. 1st time in ages I've done that. By Sunday afternoon I was happy to simply go for a nice long sail, but Saturday was spent looking at the small details, like how outhaul affects the amount of hooking the leech has in light winds (in a Laser, an amazing amount - will have to have a look on the Lightning) and how that affects upwind speed.

Training has to be focused, and that is hard, and sometimes not much fun. Racing or going for a blast is maybe a better way to spend leisure time than staring intently at bits of wool on a white background for hours on end.


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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: L123456
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 12:26pm
Training can be more fun than racing as it can often be more active and interesting especially if the training is an organised group activity.

Club races can end up very tedious unless you are lucky enough to have a fleet that creates boat on boat action.


Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 12:28pm
Some of this is accessibility.  How many of us have clubs we can get to quickly and easily that are open and with safety cover (if we want it) at times when we are able to train?  It's not anywhere like as easy as going for a run, going to a floodlit pitch, going to an indoor gym etc.

Add to this that many simply don't know how to train for sailing - maybe they haven't been down the squad route or ever done any race training - and yes it can become boring or unproductive, and just reuslts in a cruise. 

There are some boats that demand training - for me it's both the contender and the d one - and in that I would include the mps and really any  kind of skiff, if you want to get out on the open circuit and do well.  But there are plenty of other boats where you can just go out every Sunday and do ok, slotting neatly into your place in the club pecking order....

Just off out now to practise rudderless and MoB....


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the same, but different...



Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 12:31pm
Originally posted by L123456

Club races can end up very tedious unless you are lucky enough to have a fleet that creates boat on boat action.


Obviously many people disagree with you...

But it wouldn't surprise me if there are people who find that racing week after week in a single class fleet of unexceptional boats, with everyone finishing in roughly the same order every week, isn't their personal peak of recreational fun.


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 12:46pm
there is always variance at Hunts in the handicap fleet. Wind strength gives a lot of variety as different boats perform.

In the Laser fleet (which has been in decline for quite some time now) it was getting a bit samey and not really inspiring to turn up to.

Soon I will have another D-Zero to race against as well.


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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 12:51pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by L123456

Club races can end up very tedious unless you are lucky enough to have a fleet that creates boat on boat action.


Obviously many people disagree with you...

But it wouldn't surprise me if there are people who find that racing week after week in a single class fleet of unexceptional boats, with everyone finishing in roughly the same order every week, isn't their personal peak of recreational fun.

true- but they can always hop into another fleet as a crew, or swap boats with a mate if they feel like it.  It's very few would worry overly about how a DNC might affect their series result - even then you can chalk up a discard and enjoy something different if the fancy takes you.


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Posted By: timeintheboat
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by winging it


Add to this that many simply don't know how to train for sailing
 
And that is a very good point. I can go out there on my own sail and sail and sail. Look at the telltales look at the sail, tack & gybe and mark round, it may feel good to me - but is it effective training?
 
 
 


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Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else


Posted By: Presuming Ed
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 1:53pm
Also, in many sports where there is a club team, you can't not train, or you won't get selected.

Would also think that in many sports like that, there is far more of a culture of the club coach.


Posted By: hum3
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 2:38pm

Time, access to water and ambition (read 'botheredness') are probably the main barriers to my mind. I know I've done the most training if at least two of the three are present.

The other difficult thing is that sailing is weather dependent (DUH!), but it's not like you can say 'I'd really like to practice heavy wind gybing today' if it's 5 knots, so planning training to address your weaknesses (which is what most people want to do) is more awkward.


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 2:41pm
Originally posted by hum3

The other difficult thing is that sailing is weather dependent (DUH!), but it's not like you can say 'I'd really like to practice heavy wind gybing today' if it's 5 knots, so planning training to address your weaknesses (which is what most people want to do) is more awkward.


Surely we all have weaknesses in all wind strengths? I know I do...


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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: hum3
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by Rupert


Surely we all have weaknesses in all wind strengths? I know I do...
 
Hey, I've never not gone out if I'm at the club and there's a sailing breeze (user defined!) because it's not what I wanted, but it does make training more difficult to structure, compared to other sports. You can't pick and choose which skills to work on often...
 
EDIT - If you could, I reckon people's motivation to train would be higher...


Posted By: L123456
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 2:54pm
What I don't understand is if you are not bothered about your result why race in the first place?

Isn't the whole point of racing to try and achieve your best performance ?

Otherwise you are just cruising in company.


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 2:57pm
Originally posted by L123456

Otherwise you are just cruising in company.


Is that a problem?

But I think you can enjoy the competitive aspect without actually being so bothered about it... Would I do better if I went running every day and onto a strict diet and lost two stone? Sure. Do I think its worth doing? Apparently not...


Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 2:58pm
Originally posted by L123456

What I don't understand is if you are not bothered about your result why race in the first place?

Isn't the whole point of racing to try and achieve your best performance ?

Otherwise you are just cruising in company.

I guess it's the same reason my wife and her mates go to jump around in a gym studio punching thin air for an hour.... it's a competitive physical pastime, rather than a 'sport'.


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Posted By: hum3
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 3:06pm
Originally posted by L123456



Isn't the whole point of racing to try and achieve your best performance ?

 
As my wife (who I sail with) is trying to teach me, it's not always the case that better result = more fun! The mere act of racing can be fun too, apparently.
 
Old habits die hard...


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 3:09pm
Blimey, wish I'd know that 40 years ago, hum - think of the tantrums I'd have avoided!

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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by L123456



Isn't the whole point of racing to try and achieve your best performance ?

 

Back when I played Hockey a few years ago the team I played for were more in it for a the bit of exercise they got running round an astro for 70 minutes followed by the social afterwards down the local pub.

Sure we wanted to win but for most of the team it was more s social sporting activity than a competitive game.

Same goes for sailing. Yes I like do well and win races/series where I can but some of the best races I have had is where there has been a race long battle between several boats. At the finish I am not overly bothered if I come out on top of that pile but I have enjoyed the journey as it were.

If those people who knew they were never going to win a race suddenly stopped racing you local club would be a much quieter place to be.....


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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 3:15pm
Hmm it certainly makes a difference as to who buys the beer.

That is important.

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Posted By: L123456
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by kneewrecker


Originally posted by L123456

What I don't understand is if you are not bothered about your result why race in the first place?

Isn't the whole point of racing to try and achieve your best performance ?

Otherwise you are just cruising in company.

I guess it's the same reason my wife and her mates go to jump around in a gym studio punching thin air for an hour.... it's a competitive physical pastime, rather than a 'sport'.


Is that competitive thought? Do they rank the performance of all the participants each time?


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by L123456



Is that competitive thought?


I'll never win at competitive thought!


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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: Steve411
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by timeintheboat

Originally posted by winging it


Add to this that many simply don't know how to train for sailing
 
And that is a very good point. I can go out there on my own sail and sail and sail. Look at the telltales look at the sail, tack & gybe and mark round, it may feel good to me - but is it effective training?
 
 
 

I imagine that Jon Emmett's 'How to be your own coach' would help (I haven't read it though). If you're by yourself the trick is to keep up the intensity of your training to try and mimic race conditions so you're not just cruising around. So, for example, pick a few buoys to sail round. Time your first lap, then try and beat that time on subsequent laps. Wind conditions might mean you can't but at least you're trying hard. Another way is to use a GPS. I know, for example, that I should be doing 6-6.5 knots upwind when full powered up. Try to keep that speed up for a long beat and you get used to what it feel like. When you're racing you'll know when you're going slowly and look for reasons why (not sitting out hard enough, pinching etc).


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Steve B
RS300 411

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Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by L123456

Otherwise you are just cruising in company.


Is that a problem?

But I think you can enjoy the competitive aspect without actually being so bothered about it... Would I do better if I went running every day and onto a strict diet and lost two stone? Sure. Do I think its worth doing? Apparently not...

I 100% agree with you, and many of those who happily sail the 'wrong boat at the wrong location' are testament to that also.  I applaud them, really I do.  

So a question for you- does the more accurate and credible PY system of today, add to the essence of this concept; or does it, despite well meant intention, detract from it?  I think this is especially true in respect of the advanced tools around personal handicapping now at your (plural) disposal? 

It is incumbent upon us back of fleet chumps to disregard the poor spreadsheet result that devalues our on the water efforts- often in the face of growing statistical authenticity.  Whereas before we could simply say 'oh well, it's only handicap racing and I enjoyed it, what the heck...'


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Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 3:32pm
"What I don't understand is if you are not bothered about your result why race in the first place? 

Isn't the whole point of racing to try and achieve your best performance ? 

Otherwise you are just cruising in company."

That's a very black and white view. I would suggest that life and time away from work for many people has many more subtleties.

There is another point. Exactly what does anybody mean by training? Just going out and doing 50 tacks and 50 gybes certainly isn't training if you're doing it wrong, it's simply making bad technique even more entrenched and therefore doing more hard than good. 

Sailing to my mind is far more about head and technique than sheer grunt. If that is accepted I would say it is nearly impossible to train effectively without a coach watching.

Now. Controversial I know but perhaps it also depends on the class sailed? I see the OP is L123456, a Laser possibly? If not racing to win why would you sail one at all? Whereas JimC, Canoe maybe a more interesting boat to simply sail for it's own sake.


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 3:37pm
One reason to race is that if you are on a small lake, you soon run out of places to cruise to. If one the sea, it means safety boat cover for your sailing.

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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by Rupert

If on the sea, it means safety boat cover for your sailing.

only in unseaworthy craft and/or sailing without suitable risk awareness.

I grew up sailing without rescue cover when not racing, even then it was one rib for 20+ boats.  

Most of my current sailing is without rescue outside of the emergency services, so I guess you accept what you are used to.  


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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 4:21pm
Agreed, it is quite OK to sail on the sea without safety cover, but it gives an excellent reason to go racing not based on the concept of winning.

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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: iiitick
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 7:55pm
Personally I have no confidence in my own ability so why train? If I thought that by training I would win races and be admired by women I would do it. As it is I potter round, the worst of the best and the best of the worst. I know my place in the order of things.

Ambitious club racers usually do not practice but they race a lot, Wednesdays, Sundays and opens.


Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 8:14pm
Originally posted by kneewrecker

yep- I get that.  Nothing better sometimes than a day on the water with your toys without human contact beyond the perfunctory 'I'm here safe' and 'I'm on my way home' text messages.  

That might extend to 'a sausage roll please' at a cafe, but really nothing else- no email, no phone calls, no phatic discourse with work people.    

I know you're supposed to say things like 'being at one with nature', but actually I just mean 'switch off' and rest of the world can go F8ck itself for a few measly self-indulgent hours on a boat or a board.  


Its all about what Russell Brand describes as "a holiday from your head" i.e being pleasantly absorbed by something that you want to be absorbed by, rather than "work," which is rewarding and engaging, silencing the incessant chatter in our modern consciousnesses.

Our Russ (Brand, not Hopkins) used to get a holiday from his head care of a lot of smack, and putting a lot of women to the sword, including Manuel's granddaughter. Apparently.

Sailing is one of many far more wholesome pursuits that can offer one a completely absorbing holiday from one's head with a healthy side order of endorphin for extra feelings of wellbeing. 


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 8:22pm
Let me say this as the father of quite attractive daughters, as one who has studied womenkind and attempted to decipher the illogical psychosis that is being feminine, no woman I have ever come across, has ever said 'Oh he sails an OK he must be irresistible, come to think of it, that counts for just about every dinghy sailing class known to man. Now windsurfers, or kite surfers...

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Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 9:38pm
Wrong thread. Age is creeping up on you....

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the same, but different...



Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 9:47pm
How's the ripcord on that outboard Wingwang?

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Posted By: Chris 249
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 9:51pm
Lots of interesting views and posts!  I really enjoy training, love to do lots of it when I can, and know people who prefer training (not just cruising or hooning, but training) to racing. But as others have said, it's normally much harder to actually get out to train in sailing than it is to get out to train in other sports.

If I make take issue with two points......

Originally posted by Do Different

Sailing to my mind is far more about head and technique than sheer grunt. If that is accepted I would say it is nearly impossible to train effectively without a coach watching.

Interesting....thinking about your post made me wonder how many sailors can accurately visualise how a boat looks and feels when it's sailed to its optimum. If one couldn't do that particularly well then training alone could be problematic.

However, lots of top sailors spend a lot of time practising without a coach or training partner. It's almost always possible to work on head and technique without a coach. Take the IC; the mere act of tacking is complicated and therefore one can easily try new techniques by yourself; after each fluffed tack just sit back and try to work out what went wrong and how it can be fixed; does the mainsheet hand go X inches behind the back, for instance, or Y inches? 

Other things are simple but still need practice; exactly how much weight must you feel coming off the Laser mainsheet before you give it a little tug when gybing, for example? On the Canoe I stand up in the hiking position at the end of the plank and run down it and onto the deck - that's simple but it needs practice.

Then there's the fact that the human nervous system learns things by repetition, so once one has learned the right way to do something - like roll tack a Laser - one must then repeat it many, many times before one can repeat it every time perfectly under pressure.

Even something allegedly as simple as sailing upwind in moderate breeze needs a lot of training, for me at any rate; just getting the right amount of ease in the mainsheet and pinch in each gust to ensure that the boat stays at the correct angle of heel is something where you can feel yourself improving with training. Personally I find that a lot of solo training is vital, partly so I can concentrate on technique and partly because self-doubt comes rushing in when training with a partner or coach. YMMV.

Now. Controversial I know but perhaps it also depends on the class sailed? I see the OP is L123456, a Laser possibly? If not racing to win why would you sail one at all? Whereas JimC, Canoe maybe a more interesting boat to simply sail for it's own sake.

I sail my Laser because I love sailing my Laser, just as I sail my Canoe because I love sailing my Canoe. In fact the IC has been off the water for years whereas I'm either sailing the Laser or lending it to people who go on to buy their own Lasers.

The Laser is fantastic to train on; it gives you a lot of feedback in anything of a breeze.
 




Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 9:59pm
Originally posted by iGRF

No woman I have ever come across, has ever said 'Oh he sails an OK he must be irresistible, come to think of it...


Come to think of it, I have never come across any woman who has made any statement of that kind about any attributes, no matter how many men and aftershave advertisers insist otherwise... But there is some empirical evidence to suggest the statement may have some validity when the attribute in question is a disposable income of some millions per annum.


Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 10:14pm
I train for racing the 100, but it generally involves going out for a ride or swimming, I just don't have enough time to spare to sail around as well as racing


Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 10:20pm
Fair reply 249, I don't doubt anything you say.

You and "lots of top sailors" obviously know what spot on right feels like, not everybody does though.

Of course you appreciate the only reason to sail a Laser is to train to race comment was intended to tease.

Certainly agree totally with the muscle memory point, I would take it a little further and say that mental visualisation techniques really help as well. I remember when starting on my Laser with limited sailing time at my sea Club, after sailing I used to try to recall what went wrong and how to remedy. Next time on the water I could transfer those mental sensations into real actions (edit, sometimes Wink).   








Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 10:42pm
Originally posted by JimC

But there is some empirical evidence to suggest the statement may have some validity when the attribute in question is a disposable income of some millions per annum.


A man who understands women.

Be very careful such knowledge is very dangerous, even suggesting it can get you verbally mauled.

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Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 11:07pm
Jim- do you think your Cherub and IC count as 'two yachts' on a http://Sugardaddie.com" rel="nofollow - Sugardaddie.com profile?

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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 04 Oct 14 at 10:41am
Well, my homesafe settings don't like that website, but how about 7 yachts? Must be supermodel bait, me.

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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: NickM
Date Posted: 04 Oct 14 at 12:19pm
I would love to train more if I had more time, lived closer to the club, could go out whenever (sailing hours restricted not to upset fishermen,) and had somebody to train with who was conveniently free whenever I was.   Instead I try to keep fit enough just to have the satisfaction of being able to finish three races back to back if its blowing 20kts+


Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 04 Oct 14 at 2:56pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Well, my homesafe settings don't like that website, but how about 7 yachts? Must be supermodel bait, me.

I can save you the hassle- think ex-lapdancers a bit beyond their best and cheesy men splashing cash without their wife knowing (or probably caring, truth be told).  

A bit like the evening entertainment at a D-One event....


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Posted By: bristolmustoskiff
Date Posted: 05 Oct 14 at 8:44am
with us mustos at datchet we rarely  raec normally do are own training sessions on a saturday including sprint style races and boat handling thats normally with 3-6 of us

if its me on my i sail  for 6 hours with a 30 min break  just training on my own its well worth it 

on a sunday if we do race we do the 2 races in the morning have some food then back out for another 3 hours of boat handling and boat on boat practice 


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live hard race harder


Posted By: boatshed
Date Posted: 05 Oct 14 at 9:56am
Originally posted by bristolmustoskiff

with us mustos at datchet we rarely  raec normally do are own training sessions on a saturday including sprint style races and boat handling thats normally with 3-6 of us
if its me on my i sail  for 6 hours with a 30 min break  just training on my own its well worth it 
on a sunday if we do race we do the 2 races in the morning have some food then back out for another 3 hours of boat handling and boat on boat practice 


Wow. that's some effort.   If that was me and I didn't have a couple of world or nats titles - or even a medal - I'd be really hacked off by now.

For me, I go for min training, max results. which now explains my results.

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Steve


Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 05 Oct 14 at 10:04am
Originally posted by bristolmustoskiff

with us mustos at datchet we rarely  raec normally do are own training sessions on a saturday including sprint style races and boat handling thats normally with 3-6 of us

if its me on my i sail  for 6 hours with a 30 min break  just training on my own its well worth it 

on a sunday if we do race we do the 2 races in the morning have some food then back out for another 3 hours of boat handling and boat on boat practice 

Well that's not doing much to convince the rest of us that a MPS is as attainable as the class like to think it is ... Confused


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Posted By: bristolmustoskiff
Date Posted: 05 Oct 14 at 12:29pm
well just are preference and as we are all mates it good to get together 

i drive 1hour 30 mins every weekend to sail and practice

also i said i practice lots dident say i was any good Tongue

the musto needs practice you can never expect to jump into a boat and be fast straight away


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live hard race harder


Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 05 Oct 14 at 6:01pm
And also, practice like that, boat on boat, can often be much more fun than racing.

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the same, but different...



Posted By: bristolmustoskiff
Date Posted: 06 Oct 14 at 4:16pm
yea agreed

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live hard race harder


Posted By: zippyRN
Date Posted: 15 Oct 14 at 2:42pm
Originally posted by JimC

If you're not that bothered about winning, and the racing is more fun than the training, then why not...

also for many people their club racing is their  'training' for their  percieved big events ( which might not be  viewed as such by others , who are more serious) ...


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 15 Oct 14 at 3:40pm
Originally posted by zippyRN


Originally posted by JimC

If you're not that bothered about winning, and the racing is more fun than the training, then why not...

also for many people their club racing is their  'training' for their  percieved big events ( which might not be  viewed as such by others , who are more serious) ...

That'll be me then. I worked out it was my tenth anniversary this summer just gone, so that's now ten years of dinghy sailing gone by in a flash.. I did attend a training session from the Musto folk which was good but it also convinced me when I watched the really good guys on the 2nd day in strong winds, that I'd left it too late and probably the boat was too difficult to bother with anyway so gave it back not long after.

Other than that I consider returning to winter activity down the lake as training, I'd long since given up windsurf racing once the temperature dips below 10 degrees, but here I am death bagged up looking forward to another winters sunday mornings.

My main weakness is now strong winds on the sea, a real annoyance as it used to be one of my strengths windsurfing, once it was windy enough for everyone to be equally overpowered I'd do well, my weak point was force 4-5 where the taller lard boys have it away. No amount of practise can overcome body shape once you have achieved a certain level and I feel that is even more exaggerated in dinghies, unless there is some technique I've yet to master, there comes a point when weight or lack of it has its way with you.

Although I could do with brushing up stronger wind gybes, but the problem comes that there is no rescue cover around to train in the winds you need to train in and the times you get caught out are when the wind comes up during a race.

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https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website


Posted By: iiitick
Date Posted: 15 Oct 14 at 5:32pm
Sitting here with man-flu and close to death, sunny Sunday  seems a long time ago. Ones very presence in the house seems to offend ones wife who keeps attacking one with the Hoover. Training? Up yours! 

I do need to pull myself together though as I have to demonstrate the differences between Byte and Lightning for a young lady on Friday.


Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 15 Oct 14 at 7:59pm
Originally posted by iiitick

I do need to pull myself together though as I have to demonstrate the differences between Byte and Lightning for a young lady on Friday.

Be sure to get her consent first Wink


Posted By: Caveman
Date Posted: 15 Oct 14 at 9:52pm
I do train to maintain my personal fitness rather than improve my sailing. A couple of gym sessions each week and a 30-40 mile bike ride with friends early on a Saturday morning. Sundays are generally reserved for sailing (cycling substitutes for drifters). 

I am chuffed with how my cycling has progressed over a short period. It is quite possible to get remarkably quick on a bike in months whereas it usually takes years to become any good at sail racing. That for me is what lies behind the  appeal of sailing. It is so much more satisfying as a sport. 

As to training in the boat, most of the time I just want to get out and have fun racing with a bunch of like minded friends. Sure I'll never be a top sailor but, for someone with limited time, I  reckon that regular close fleet racing (particularly if some fleet members are better sailors than you are) is a great way to improve. 


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Enthusiasm>Skill


Posted By: Chris 249
Date Posted: 15 Oct 14 at 11:51pm
Originally posted by Caveman


I am chuffed with how my cycling has progressed over a short period. It is quite possible to get remarkably quick on a bike in months whereas it usually takes years to become any good at sail racing. 

I can only agree that you can improve in cycling much faster than in sailing - but only until you reach a certain level. Then you start to need to do a few hundred kilometres a week in cycling to get better. The top Master in our club does 600+ quality ks a week, which would take him around 17 hours or so. 

Because sailing is a mid-sized sport with lots of different classes and many of us don't train much, I used to assume that when sailors moved into other sports we may get thrashed. Interestingly, the sailors and windsurfers I know who gave up sailing and went into cycling often did much BETTER at the bigger sport.

One mid-fleet club Laser sailor returned to his old sport of cycling and has since won a bunch of state championships in his age group. A good national level windsurfer (fast enough to get places but not wins IIRC) has been national masters champ on the bike a couple of times and has an amazing ability to go from winning track racing to getting 2nd out of 600+ mountainbikers before hopping on a time trial bike and getting 2nd from 60. Another windsurfer and another Laser sailor went into cycling and did well at the MTB 24 hour worlds; a good national-level Tasar/Mirror sailor got into cycling, then triathlon and qualified for the Worlds. One world-class sailor who was cruelly robbed of an Olympic spot got 5th in the Masters worlds on the bike.

So while dinghy sailors don't tend to train that much, when we do get into a sport where you have to train a lot AND IT'S LOGISTICALLY EASIER TO TRAIN A LOT, we seem to do as well or better than we do in sailing. That seems to me to say that our comparative lack of training is not because we are lazy, but because it's harder to go out and train on a boat and also that it's a sport where thinking is much more important than in some other sports.





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