The Perching Harness
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11669
Printed Date: 10 Jul 25 at 4:56am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: The Perching Harness
Posted By: kneewrecker
Subject: The Perching Harness
Date Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 1:36pm
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Sick of hiking and knackering your knees, check this link out below. https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154581088445697&set=vb.624465696&type=2&theater" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154581088445697&set=vb.624465696&type=2&theater
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Replies:
Posted By: boatbasher
Date Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 2:00pm
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Fool ...
So you wish to hike harder ... you ease the sheet and the boom goes out and you dunk yourself ... Only someone who ignores the laws of physics could come up with such a moronic contraption ... |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 2:15pm
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surely the point is it's an aid, so if you wanted to ease the take up the slack in the system by 'perching harder' and preventing the boom from going out? I think it would be worth a try... ------------- |
Posted By: boatbasher
Date Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 2:22pm
You have to be kidding ... Just think you are perching nicely and are hit by a vicious gust ... what do you think is going to happen? The boom will drag you into the the boat and you will capsize ... especially if you are small and lightweight. Imagine gybing in a strong breeze ... the sheet loading up as the sail fills on the new side ... it would whip you into the cockpit ... He needs to sell tickets for his first tests on a breezy day 
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Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 2:28pm
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one assumes you unclip before tacking and gybing? ------------- |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 2:29pm
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So the wind drops suddenly... you sit in, and the boom sheets out faster than you can take up the slack. Or you get a sudden header and need to tack in a hurry? Or get a huge gust, the boat capsizes and you are tied to it with far more rope floating round than a trapeze has I kind of like the idea, but feel that attaching yourself to the accellerator in a dinghy is maybe not that sensible. Good to see some lateral thinking, though. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: fish n ships
Date Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 2:32pm
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Would it not be better to anchor the rope to the far side of the boat rather than the boom? Possibly the shroud point? Either way i would have thought the better option is to buy a boat suitable for your physical abilities... |
Posted By: boatbasher
Date Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 2:39pm
 I fear you have missunderstood the "concept" ... he has attached the mainsheet to his chest harness.
So if you unclip it the boom will travel freely ... slamming against the shroud post gybe probably snapping the boom or dropping the rig post gybe in a breeze ... |
Posted By: boatbasher
Date Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 2:41pm
I know ... instead of the boom why not the mast ... perhaps near the hounds ... add an adjuster then hook to that ... perhaps you could call it a trapeze ... |
Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 2:44pm
| I think he's lost it! Is that the V-Barge in the back ground? |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 2:56pm
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I think he says you clip it back to the floor.... ------------- |
Posted By: boatbasher
Date Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 3:07pm
Not in that video he doesn't ... anyway ... like I say ... sell tickets for the first windy test run ... |
Posted By: MattK
Date Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 4:48pm
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You could attach it to a fixed spar, how about the mast not the boom? And then to get more righting moment stand on the side of the boat instead of sitting
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 5:37pm
| Na, rather than bother with the harness and stuff, why not have a plank that you can slide over the side of the boat and sit on... |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 5:46pm
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I think we'd have to take at least ten points off his py if he went out with such a blatant piece of banditry. ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: dohertpk
Date Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 7:13pm
| There are two infinitely more elegant ways to deal with hiking pain; hit the gym and/or buy a trapeze boat. Occam's razor springs to mind... |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 7:19pm
| You missed the obvious but heretical suggestion; a keelboat. It might actually help dear GRF sort out a lot of the stuff crashing around in his head, for me yacht racing is far more tactical than dinghy in that situations tend to evolve slower, take longer to work or correct, there is a plenty of one design so no need for handicapping rants and he can do it with others, so there's a solution to his well know dislike of single handing..... |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 7:20pm
| But respect for him, once again proving he is willing to go to self ridiculing lengths for this great sport! |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 7:25pm
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much as I'm first in line to chuck to rotten tomatoes, turds and cabbage at Fuller in the stocks, maybe we need to be a little open minded. After all, there's enough love going around for Mr Simpson in that chest harness right now, is this that much of a step away from hiking harness seen on the Star Crews? He just seems to have stepped-up the system for singlehanded smaller boats... it might not work, but bless him for having the courage to have a go. I actually think that with some adapted technique, it's not as dumb as it seems- I'd certainly try it before writing the idea off and I'd certainly take the piss more if he bought a beach cat...
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Posted By: boatbasher
Date Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 8:23pm
Innovation is great but stupid ideas will always be stupid ideas ... |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 8:38pm
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yes it is a step away. The star and yngling "hiking harnesses" clip to a point in the boat. I'm not convinced this is any way a sane idea. ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 9:15pm
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400s and Merlin's have mainsheet hoops that might make this workable. But grumph, has no one told you they are called toe straps not shin straps for a reason? And even with your new device, you don't actually seem to be anywhere near hiking fully ------------- http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here |
Posted By: SimonW
Date Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 9:20pm
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Those keelboat harnesses, including the one I used on Solings, are quite different in that the direction of support is nearly vertical upwards by the time you are sitting on the side of the boat. Very comfortable, but still a b*gger to get back in after a long beat. ------------- Simon Wilkins Once upon a time a Soling and Lark sailor |
Posted By: Time Lord
Date Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 10:02pm
Doubt that the traveller hoop on a Merlin would take the extra load of a Grumph hanging off the side as they are not designed for that. Same for a 400 I would guess as they have a similar arrangement although round top. ------------- Merlin Rocket 3609 |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 10:24pm
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I move fore and aft quite a lot in a boat - not sure this would help doing that at all, though I suppose it would only be needed when sitting out for a while on a long beat at sea, so less movement than on a lake.
------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 23 Sep 14 at 8:18am
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Another genius GRF solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Perching doesn't need a support harness and if God & GRF forbid you wanted to lay out flatter the angle becomes so shallow to be of little support or help. BTW. GRF constantly bemoans string in dinghies and now wants to add more?
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Posted By: PeterG
Date Posted: 23 Sep 14 at 8:43am
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Smart dog in the video, though - got out of the boat pretty sharply! ------------- Peter Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59 |
Posted By: L123456
Date Posted: 23 Sep 14 at 9:23am
From the man who brought us the V-Turd and explained his discovery of perpetual motion ... it is genius I tell you
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Posted By: blaze720
Date Posted: 23 Sep 14 at 9:29am
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Looks like one for the crew .. one you don't want to sail with too often and maybe needs to be taught a damn good lesson for previous infringements ! Better still why not just attach them to the uphaul of a decent sized spinnaker in a gusty F5-6 .. ... and who said sailing could not be made into a worthwhile spectator sport.  (Seriously it is always worth looking into any new ideas however 'off the wall' they might appear at first - just occasionally a bit of lateral thinking leads somewhere interesting ) Mike L. |
Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 23 Sep 14 at 10:16am
Yep - the dog has shown the highest IQ in that video ...
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Posted By: MerlinMags
Date Posted: 23 Sep 14 at 12:01pm
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Unfortunately the new device would be illegal in the Merlin Rocket. The class rules specifically ban "contrivances that aid the crew supporting their bodyweight outboard".
I am so disappointed I won't be able to try out this revolutionary concept. |
Posted By: robin34024
Date Posted: 23 Sep 14 at 12:13pm
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I think it would be banned in most classes... ------------- |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 23 Sep 14 at 12:25pm
Which possibly shows that GRF's view of dinghy sailors isn't far wide of the mark. Or possibly shows that we want to keep the racing the same for everyone. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 23 Sep 14 at 12:34pm
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I should have known better than to wind jimbo up with my genius. Well what a ringing endorsement, almost 100% of Y&Y forum botherers think it won't work, so what better encouragement?
It came to me in the night, wrestling as I was with the fury of another wasted wait, so until I've actually tried it, it remains a 'what if' . My Facebook tends to be a centre for ironical exchanges with family and friends so not normally to be taken too seriously and is indeed self deprecating at times. But, this time from my point of view I actually quite like the idea of being back linked to the boom where I feel at home. What's the worse that can happen? A gust? Just sheet out like usual. A lull would be more problematic if you're hiking out and get caught but isn't that what the footstraps are for? (I've changed them by the way they were mid refurb when I shot that hence having to be shin straps. I'm also desperate to figure out a system so I can gybe like normal, all this crash duck gybing, it's so tense and this might help. I can rig the gnav internally on the boom, maybe run the control in parallel to the mainsheet. The Cunningham would have also to be fixed to the mast or boom base in order to let the boom swing right round, all that remains is a means of reliable retrieval of the harness chicken loop (It's a kite system, not quick release at this stage, but could be). Oh and I said I was thinking of giving up sailing, not sailing forums, don't know where you'd ever get that idea from.
So lets revisit the features and benefits of this. 1)Direct boom control for better feeling 2)Less strain by upper body support 3)Quicker sheeting response time using body and normal sheeting to reduce time to sheet in and out if necessary. 4)Better gust response, lean in = sheet out, lean out sheet further in without needing to adjust by sheet hand. 5) Revert to normal option. If it's too light/gusty/strong, just clip the chicken loop to a central position or traveller and you're back to normal. What could possibly go wrong? PS Any use by Merlins would see an instant recourse to law, the patent is pending. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 23 Sep 14 at 12:40pm
| There have been all sorts of weird ideas over the years... The original sailboard probably seemed fairly silly too. The year after 14s banned trapezes someone showed up with a pole that was pushed into a socket on the gunwhale the crew could hold onto, but frankly I can't see that it got them any further out than toe straps. |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 23 Sep 14 at 1:06pm
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Well we did have plans for 'Trevs Handle' which frankly if it helped keep him on the water without too much discomfort I'd be happy to fit to an icon, but his back is screwed for the rest of the season hopefully he'll be back for next.
The thing folk so often forget and is a serious failing in dinghy world with its rules and regs, we are supposed to be doing this for fun, it's our leisure time, if I get to enjoy my eccentricities then so what? It's OK for some 'for profit' outfit to handicap a boat I wanted, but it's not OK for me to handicap myself? It's not doing y'all any harm, not that you'd think it with some of the vitriol back there, honestly some of you do come across as such lame t**sers at times, nasty people, who would want to enjoy themselves in your company? ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 23 Sep 14 at 1:51pm
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Have as much fun as you want, that's all to the good and I guess what most people would wish for you. Thing is though, you can't have it both ways. Calling everyone know nothing dullards and espousing your ideas as the answer to every one of your peceived ills that befall sailing will provoke a response. For what it's worth, I'm not always completely in love with all class rules and the can't do that culture. I wouldn't tell anyone that their opinion is wrong, to hold an opinion is the right of everybody. Sometimes though someone is incorrect and that's an entirely different thing.
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 23 Sep 14 at 2:13pm
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Hmm, didn't just think for a bit that calling absolutely everyone who sails dinghies 'not as bright as the rest of us' delivered whilst seated in a dingy, might just be a tad ironical? Not a hint in the voice? No ? - Nevermind, hows the weather up there?
Oh and the title of the device? Personal Inboard Sheeting System? Does it not qualify for the http://www.encyclo.co.uk/define/Edinburgh%20Defense" rel="nofollow - Edinburgh defence if I need it to? ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: MerlinMags
Date Posted: 23 Sep 14 at 2:30pm
My pathetic abdominal/leg muscles are of the opinion that the Melges 20 designer created the best hiking situation. One better than the SB20 design.
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Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 23 Sep 14 at 2:45pm
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Clipping yourself into a dinghy from the boom to the chest? What could possibly. Go wrong? Probably nothing right up to the moment you capsize. ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 23 Sep 14 at 3:20pm
Well they could have fitted some of those nice Recaro seats that all of the major football clubs seem to have nicked from rally cars ------------- Everything I say is my opinion, honest |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 23 Sep 14 at 3:42pm
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"Hmm, didn't just think for a bit that calling absolutely everyone who sails dinghies 'not as bright as the rest of us' delivered whilst seated in a dingy, might just be a tad ironical? Not a hint in the voice? No ? - Nevermind, hows the weather up there? " Well yes, awash with irony, especially the entire concept of a windsurfer adding more rope systems to a dinghy. It seems I must apologise, for so much of your posting I am often unsure if you are oblivious to the irony or it is intended. The written word is not my best medium, one day it would be good to have a proper conversation, once I went as far south as Weymouth, how do you live with that many people? As for the weather, sun's still shining.
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 23 Sep 14 at 3:44pm
 ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 23 Sep 14 at 3:49pm
No, please don't apologise, you'll make me feel bad I took no offence from anything you might have said... If in doubt the sort of character I am, both here and in real life, I'd assume irony is in there somewhere.. Unless you're a member of the PYAG of course. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 23 Sep 14 at 8:11pm
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I'm not sure what made me laugh more the 'blockundtackelhandler' (note 1), or the not so gentle mockery by GRF's daughters. Note 1: A device featured in a Leslie Thomas novel for lowering a man onto a reclining woman whenever she requires. Until now never put into production.
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 23 Sep 14 at 9:58pm
So, here's the fall back scenario, the chicken loop hooks into a spreader bar shackled to the hull and everything works the way it used to.
Bit of fun, or could it be a serious bonus, who knows, only one way to find out, racing it tomorrow afternoon. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 23 Sep 14 at 10:03pm
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Won't it get knocked out of that hook a little too easily? Rather a strange angle, too?
------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 23 Sep 14 at 10:09pm
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Dunno it should be under tension, that's where I've been using it of late, had a traveller made from garden hose to stop the bloody rope engaging with the block during transitions, rear sheeting didn't do me any favours and it's been about as successful in that position as anything else I've tried. The only issue now i can foresee is my tendency to over sheet, but hopefully the 'feel' I'll get from the boom, which i miss so much, might compensate if I'm hooked in.
I've actually got another spreader hook with a blocking device to stop the spreader dropping out if it is an issue or there are things called donkey dicks that do the same thing. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: boatbasher
Date Posted: 24 Sep 14 at 10:56am
No doubt you are the proud owner of a number of donkey dicks ... |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 24 Sep 14 at 5:27pm
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Well, the mechanics looked flawed to me. BUT. It's wednesday and honest injun, I'm interested to hear how it went in practice.
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 24 Sep 14 at 7:08pm
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I've used it now, got a video I'm wrestling to extract from this helmet cam thing I've had laying about for 18 months and forgot I had.
I tried it down the lake and to be honest if I'd raced with it I'd have been toast, but on the sea, there's no doubt in my mind now it'll be a welcome addition. It's a bit weird to try something like this, you don't know what's exactly going to happen but I'll show you the vid, uncut so you can make your own judgements. Just need to get it up somewhere I can post a link to. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 24 Sep 14 at 8:47pm
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I can stick it youtube for you if want- post me the SD card, I promise not to splice it with tranny porn (again) ------------- |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 24 Sep 14 at 10:06pm
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Damn thing is too long for Facebook, trying to shorten it, haven't really messed about with video editing, number three daughter normally does all that.
I'll see if I can email you the raw file, it offers that option out of iMovie. It's just a head cam of me looming about in the eps, but it does prove that the idea works, it works fine if you sheet off the boom, I then tried sheeting via the main sheet block and cleat, which threw up a problem tack and gybing as the line gets crossed. It'll work fine on the sea, but on the lake, I'm not so sure that any advantage it may give would be worth the possible problems off the boom sheeting brings, plus on that lake you don't really get to sail long enough for hiking pain to cut in. Interesting and fun experiment though. I'm going to leave it in place. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |