The Bart Number
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11654
Printed Date: 13 Jul 25 at 1:48am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: The Bart Number
Posted By: kneewrecker
Subject: The Bart Number
Date Posted: 16 Sep 14 at 3:06pm
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http://www.bartsbash.co.uk/the-bart-number" rel="nofollow - http://www.bartsbash.co.uk/the-bart-number Is it better or worse than PY? What's the feedback going to be like after the weekend? Would you like to use it over PY in the future for club racing and friendly opens?
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Replies:
Posted By: AlexM
Date Posted: 16 Sep 14 at 3:09pm
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Oh god, I knew I shouldn't of posted that ;-)
It might take how much you've raised into the equation :-) |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 16 Sep 14 at 3:12pm
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I think it is just a bit of fun and kudos to them for trying to allow pretty much anything with sails to race against anything else with sails. Sadly as we all know windsurfers, dinghies, keelboats, foilers and catamarans have such different characteristics it is unlikely to be a true measure. remember it is more about putting the fun into fundraising! I am hoping my 9 year old daughter will take part in her first full race. She is excited to be part of a world record attempt! ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 16 Sep 14 at 3:43pm
ah, OK... well good luck to them  ------------- |
Posted By: Alistair426
Date Posted: 16 Sep 14 at 4:45pm
What's starting to worry me is the number of twists to the GWR conditions that are starting to emerge. 
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Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 16 Sep 14 at 4:54pm
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what are they Alistair? ------------- |
Posted By: Alistair426
Date Posted: 16 Sep 14 at 6:39pm
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Witnesses have gone from being 'independent' (not club members or related to anybody taking part) to 'independent and holding positions of authority (Doctors, Solicitors, Teachers, etc). Some clubs may have to sack their witnesses and start again 'Video of start and finish' is now 'start and finish with footage of every boat crossing the line'. This will mean a static video camera trained along the line for up to an hour if you've got cats and Oppies, like we have. ...and there are other slight 'adjustments' that we will have to make in light of the check list that came out a few days ago. All of it is do-able but it might have been nice if all the 'must haves' had been laid out right at the beginning. Going to be a great day though!
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Posted By: AlexM
Date Posted: 16 Sep 14 at 7:07pm
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Hi Alistair,
Not seen any of that? and can't find any reference to it on the site. Do you have a link? Alex Edit- found it http://www.bartsbash.co.uk/sites/default/files/check_list_-_final.pdf
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Posted By: Steve411
Date Posted: 16 Sep 14 at 7:20pm
Not just this but it really bugs me that only professional types are deemed worthy. Same for having passport photos countersigned. There's an implicit suggestion that non-professionals are somehow less trustworthy. ------------- Steve B RS300 411 https://www.facebook.com/groups/55859303803" rel="nofollow - RS300 page |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 16 Sep 14 at 7:21pm
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... When in my experience, the reverse can be so very true!!! ------------- |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 16 Sep 14 at 7:28pm
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It really does hark back to the days of the educated and the rest, doesn't it? These days you are far more likely to have a better degree and be a non "professional" than you are being a teacher, sadly. I agree I can't connect any of it, way back then or now, with honesty.All very odd. I think they would have done better to concentrate on the core race and said stuff the guinness lot. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: patj
Date Posted: 16 Sep 14 at 7:29pm
| I don't envisage many small clubs going to those lengths. They'll do the racing and fund raise but since 25 boats on the water is very, very rare for them, they wouldn't count for the record anyway. |
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 16 Sep 14 at 9:09pm
| Well I'm hearing about a lot of small clubs making sure they have the required 25! |
Posted By: iiitick
Date Posted: 16 Sep 14 at 9:38pm
| The biggest turnout we had this year was 22 but we have registered 27 for Barts...and still two club Lasers spare....anyone? |
Posted By: Roger
Date Posted: 16 Sep 14 at 9:47pm
Yep, your dead right there, our small club now has 40 registered and you'd probably have to go back decades to find that many sailing on a Sunday, if ever... |
Posted By: Chris 249
Date Posted: 16 Sep 14 at 10:11pm
Is it meant to be that? Perhaps the reason is that people working in certain professions are subject to the additional scrutiny of a professional body, over and above the normal laws that everyone else must follow. I've worked for years in professional standards bodies that oversee certain professions and sectors. Professional regulators like that will often investigate allegations of false declarations etc that police ignore. In my work I've chucked people out of their professions, on to the front pages and into the unemployment queue for conduct that they would easily get away with if they were not professionals. It's certainly not all a blessing. In addition, professionals are often easier to track down than people working in other jobs if need be; i.e. if someone wanted to check up whether Dr Throgmorton Wheelhouse MD actually exists and where he can be interviewed it's normally quite easy, whereas it's not so easy to find out whether Throgmorton Wheelhouse the woodturner is a real person or to get to talk to them. EDITED TO CONDENSE
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 17 Sep 14 at 9:20am
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Throgmorton Wheelhouse - what a wonderful name. And imagine there being 2 of them, one a doctor, one a wood turner. And there was I thinking all male Aussies were called Bruce. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: iiitick
Date Posted: 17 Sep 14 at 9:56am
| This is not worth a new topic but.....I was at Goodwood for the Revival on Saturday, a wonderful jamboree of classic motor racing, where 30,000 people dress up in period clothing. One of the pictures that rolls up on the Y&Y homepage is of a gentleman trapezing an old Albacore? wearing one of those 'guaranteed to drown you' ribbed life vests. I was wondering, Rupert, if sailors at CRVDA events wear period clothing, eschew combi trailors in favour of the leaf sprung variety and eat white bread? |
Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 17 Sep 14 at 9:59am
Surely that's an I14, not an Albacore, although we all know that the Alb is way faster  .I used one of those ribbed BA's for years - never drownded me. ------------- Nick D-Zero 316 |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 17 Sep 14 at 10:04am
Only the builders are called Bruce. If they are sheep-shearers they're called Shane. If they get too sun-tanned they all get skin cancer, or if they're really unlucky and really tanned, called 'Ab-o' before being shot. BTW- Not all Aussie dogs are called 'dingo', there are some called 'Bouncer' too.
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Posted By: iiitick
Date Posted: 17 Sep 14 at 10:16am
Yeah, well, your boat was 40 cubits long.......(misquote).
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 17 Sep 14 at 10:27am
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I've never done the period clothing thing - or period ropes, for that matter. I'll leave that to the relly dedicated.
------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 17 Sep 14 at 10:37am
LoL - would that be a reference to the great Bill Cosby? The Noah sketch is one of his best ------------- Nick D-Zero 316 |
Posted By: fish n ships
Date Posted: 17 Sep 14 at 10:37am
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I've read through the guides and does anyone else from smaller clubs think this isn't worth doing? The sheer volume of hoops is staggering. It's gone from run a race starting at 11 and collect sponsorship; to the equivalent of running a major open with OD, timekeepers, videographers, photographers, two independent not associated with sailing "professional" witnesses, a 1km course, 25 boats minimum, 1:50 ratio of stewards, plus the whole paraphernalia of documents to be filled in and signed. All for what looks to be a 15 minute race (max of 30 minutes in a oppy unless it's a total drifter). I count at least 5 people from the club (excluding witnesses) needed to run the race and somehow we're still meant to hit 25 boats when we only have maybe 30 regularly raced boats in the whole club.
Sorry to throw a negative spin on this but it seems to have just spun completely out of control and has lost the fun charitable element that I thought was meant to be at its core. |
Posted By: smurfer
Date Posted: 17 Sep 14 at 10:49am
| I'm rapidly coming to the same conclusion. We have eight boats signed up at our club, plus potentially another ten on the day. I'm secretly praying we don't reach 25. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 17 Sep 14 at 11:01am
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I think there are 2 things here - an event to have fun, be part of the fund raising and not worry about numbers, and then the GWR attempt on top of that, where the hoops matter. Seems to me that even if you reach 25, youdon't have to worry about he rest of it if you don't want to?
------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 17 Sep 14 at 11:05am
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You forgot the Roy Castle impersonator with his trumpet to play you out... As for a Norris Mcwhirter doppelgänger, that's no trouble at all, just find a willing volunteer from the Solo fleet. ------------- |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 17 Sep 14 at 11:07am
Yes quietly I took the same view, we don't have the organisation capability and from a truly fun and worthwhile thing to do it quickly became the usual dingo yottie rule anorakfest so we're giving it a drive by. If we don't do the Man of Kent we will probably just pass the hat round for the charity, give em the money but do not much else. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: iiitick
Date Posted: 17 Sep 14 at 11:20am
| We have a young lady organising this event who is a talented organiser for a major utility company. I know that she is very busy with work this week and I keep sending her warning snippets gleaned from this site. Poor girl! |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 17 Sep 14 at 1:10pm
| I'm quite sure a good number of clubs will say stuff the record nonsense and just get on with the event. I wish we were one since I seem to be getting significant share of the hassle. |
Posted By: fleaberto
Date Posted: 17 Sep 14 at 1:14pm
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It certainly has built up to something of an admin-fest, but not insurmountable.
We only get around 10-15 on the startline even on a nice Summer's day, so we sold the whole idea to our Saturday Junior sailing / training team that we could have a fun race for all, as well as barbecues etc - a late season party/family day if you will. Lo and behold, we look like a potential 30+ taking the start with many non-sailing parents/friends also interested in helping out with the appeal of setting a World Record. Witnesses were easy to find - everyone knows a policeman/teacher/guide or scout leader? A quick trip around the lake with Strava to measure the course, bolt a go-pro to the committee boat to record start & finish (reminding someone to hit 'record' of course).....bob's your Uncle. We engaged the juniors in particular and they've taken to it wonderfully...tell a kid that they could be on telly ('Barts Bash live') and you'll be flooded with short movies from phones etc. We're certainly going for it...in fact, Mrs Fleaberto is in the process of seeing which boats in the dinghy park aren't going to be in use so that we can borrow some for the over-subscribed nature of our event. Mind you, we still haven't told the fishermen yet....... ------------- Lightning368 'All the Gear' (409), Lightning368 'Sprite' (101), Laser (big number) 'Yellow Jack', RS Vareo (432)'The Golden Rays' |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 17 Sep 14 at 2:10pm
| I will go sailing, hopefully racing and have donated while entering... if we can't get the volunteers together to run the event to its 'rules' then hey-ho. I never met the man himself for more than a handshake and "hope you do well" prior to Weymouth. However, my impression from what I've read is that he (and his cohorts) would be pleased to see us all dedicate just a bit of our Sunday, on the water of course, in his foundations direction, whether that results in a world-record, or not. |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 17 Sep 14 at 2:28pm
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Looks like the same might be true for Hunts. We can do the videoing and measuring but getting 2 'professional' independent witnesses is likely to be a step too far... Well at least we will have fun and probably our biggest turnout for the whole year.... ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: Punky
Date Posted: 17 Sep 14 at 3:16pm
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How many duties a year do you have to do if you have 10-15 regulars at your club?
I'm looking forward to it but didn't like the fact the only way not to get junk mail from sponsors is being e-mailing the organiser. Still, should be a great day.
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Posted By: fleaberto
Date Posted: 17 Sep 14 at 3:23pm
3 duties, which we choose ourselves via 'Dutyman' It's weird, we have 150-ish members? and Sunday racing really only attracts 10% or less. We're big on 'family' and just social sailing really. Our Juniors see 30-40 kids turning up every Saturday morning but racers? I think 15 has been the most I've seen this year. Stays the same during the Winter though - same faces. Anyway, I love the idea that we're going to see total carnage on Sunday. The kids just show us how should be done, IE: Just have fun! They're not concerned with PY numbers, not fussed about banditry....they just rock up, go sailing and get wet with a bloody big smile on their faces. That's what I'm going to remember the day for  ------------- Lightning368 'All the Gear' (409), Lightning368 'Sprite' (101), Laser (big number) 'Yellow Jack', RS Vareo (432)'The Golden Rays' |
Posted By: gordon1277
Date Posted: 17 Sep 14 at 5:09pm
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So me as a new sole trader wont count as a witness, we have a club up the road running the race at 11 or they wont get home because of tide and then us at 12.
I was going to offer to be witness for Hill Head then sail back for the start at Lee. ------------- Gordon Lossc |
Posted By: AlanH
Date Posted: 17 Sep 14 at 9:42pm
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Re the "Albacore" with a trapeze on yy.com, I reckon its a Jollyboat. Its about 17-18 ft, I once sailed one about 40 yrs ago, fast boat.
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 17 Sep 14 at 10:07pm
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Its a 14 - there is even a caption saying so!
------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: AlexM
Date Posted: 18 Sep 14 at 8:35am
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We're up to 60 entries and working on being part of the GWR.
Very Light but sunny forecast for us so look out corrected speed :-) |
Posted By: fish n ships
Date Posted: 18 Sep 14 at 10:38am
Not sure if that's allowed:
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Posted By: gordon1277
Date Posted: 18 Sep 14 at 11:19am
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Blimey they have made that really difficult to comply with.
I cant see many clubs being able to find people who are willing to come along just for the sake of the record. I think the ethos of Barts Bash has been lost with the world record nonsense. I think most clubs will run a race raise a bit of cash and say sod it to the rest. ------------- Gordon Lossc |
Posted By: JohnJack
Date Posted: 18 Sep 14 at 11:33am
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If we have someone watching the race on the numerous web cams at our club does that count? If so Link is here... http://www.shotwicksailing.org/webcam/ |
Posted By: fish n ships
Date Posted: 20 Sep 14 at 10:06am
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After a bit of help, having moaned a lot.
It seems by hook and crook we've got everything in place (as long as we get the no of boats :S). Just looking through again and I cant decide how long the course should be. It mentions 1km as a minimum distance but then the race should be at least 15 mins long? I'm thinking of setting a course that's a km long and then do three laps. What's everyone else doing? |
Posted By: AlexM
Date Posted: 20 Sep 14 at 10:42am
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I think we're all sorted too :-) going to be a very busy day!
We're going to race for an hour (usual length of race), the distance isn't a issue as the length of our lake is over 1km |
Posted By: Roger
Date Posted: 20 Sep 14 at 8:33pm
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Our little club in Somerset seems to have it all sorted too, not my doing others have worked very hard though. We have 46 entries, several times the normal Sunday turnout, we will have Barts Bash in the morning, a lunchtime BBQ and another race in the afternoon. Many who have entered have never raced before, they just want to be part of it all, which is great. Its going to be crowded on the start line and the wind direction won't be perfect, but that's not the point, it's all about being part of it and raising a bit of cash for a good cause. |
Posted By: iiitick
Date Posted: 20 Sep 14 at 9:35pm
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I believe we are ready to go at Combs. 33 boats at the last count. We are a reservoir feeder for the canal and it has not rained so water is low. Should be fun! What is nice is the enthusiasim...another local club is sending a few boats and sailors who don't usually race, are.
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Posted By: drifter
Date Posted: 21 Sep 14 at 8:49pm
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What is Bart's number for each class? State secret? Or is it something my browser won't show. We went through all the hoops to do this, but the IT seems excessively difficult. ------------- Stewart |
Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 21 Sep 14 at 8:57pm
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The briefing at HISC said the numbers weren't available yet. Cue Grumph and allegations of gerrymandering! Also world wide results won't be posted for a couple of weeks! ------------- Nick D-Zero 316 |
Posted By: drifter
Date Posted: 21 Sep 14 at 9:08pm
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So we've had a race and we're not able to work out who won? I know our race was bloomin' close (not me you understand). I'm only interested in our own club at the minute, I understand worldwide will take some time.It shouldn't be hard to assign PNs to Uk-based dinghy fleets (unless someone fronts up with D-Zero or RS Aero :-) ) ------------- Stewart |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 7:06am
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We worked our results out using our club PY list. I believe the Barts Bash people are going to process the raw data and apply their ratings to them to get the overall results. ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |