Dinghy development: 505 Builders

Print Page | Close Window

505 Builders

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11587
Printed Date: 12 Jul 25 at 3:22pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com

Topic: 505 Builders

Posted By: Pabs
Subject: 505 Builders
Date Posted: 07 Aug 14 at 6:15am

Okay I have parted good old England and ended up in Vancouver here the only class with a decent following seems to be 505's! i have a pretty tall hefty crew lined up but I am struggling to work out what builder is best for a decent mid fleet boat! My Brother once owned a rondar which was pretty nice but I believe krywoods are pretty good and have no Idea what a water rat is. Can some one out there give me some advice on the history of the 505 builders.... And recommend what to buy and what not to buy parkers are bad??????

-------------
Boatless and Clubless

Replies:

Posted By: iiitick
Date Posted: 07 Aug 14 at 8:24am

How exciting Paul.......send us the ticket money and me Louis and the Bowdonator will be there!

Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 07 Aug 14 at 8:50am

Pabs a rondar 505 post 8400 number is going to be what your after or a krywood of similar vintage. Waterat hulls seem very quick and sought after over the pond, so I imagine there will be a few of them about.

It's a great boat mate, really great. The fleets in North America and Canada seem passionate about the class so you will be in good company

Posted By: Mike Holt
Date Posted: 07 Aug 14 at 2:34pm

There are more Waterats out on the West Coast than Rondars, incredibly well built and last forever.

Good info here:

http://www.usa505.org/classifieds" rel="nofollow - http://www.usa505.org/classifieds

Posted By: Pabs
Date Posted: 07 Aug 14 at 3:11pm

I was trying to find gear guides but seem to struggle. Where are they all built? Never herd of Van Munster.

-------------
Boatless and Clubless

Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 07 Aug 14 at 3:43pm

Van Munster was an Aussie builder that i believe built their boats out of Carbon prepreg. I think they went out of business a few years ago. Probably best you liaise with Mike directly Pabs. he is pretty much the Oracle for all things 505!

Posted By: Mike Holt
Date Posted: 07 Aug 14 at 3:52pm

Van Munster still build boats, very well built carbon pre preg.

Here is a gear guide from the recent North American's:

http://www.usa505.org/rigging/WTWU-2014-NA" rel="nofollow - http://www.usa505.org/rigging/WTWU-2014-NA

Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 07 Aug 14 at 4:14pm

Originally posted by Mike Holt

There are more Waterats out on the West Coast than Rondars, incredibly well built and last forever.

Good info here:

http://www.usa505.org/classifieds" rel="nofollow - http://www.usa505.org/classifieds

Ah ... got to love the yanks ... they have dollies to play with in their 505s ...

Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 07 Aug 14 at 4:15pm

What are "trap twings" (apparently an alternative to double spreaders)?

-------------
http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC
http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class

Posted By: Pabs
Date Posted: 07 Aug 14 at 4:22pm

Originally posted by 2547

Originally posted by Mike Holt

There are more Waterats out on the West Coast than Rondars, incredibly well built and last forever.

Good info here:

http://www.usa505.org/classifieds" rel="nofollow - http://www.usa505.org/classifieds

Ah ... got to love the yanks ... they have dollies to play with in their 505s ...

I know tell me about it I might end up importing one from England!

-------------
Boatless and Clubless

Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 07 Aug 14 at 11:08pm

Trap twings are a device which moves the trapeze take off point further up the mast to support the mast top when the kite is up. Remember when the 505 switched to the monster 6m kite it moved the kite halyard take off a metre up the mast beyond the hounds. There are a couple of different systems, auto twings which move the take off when the kite is raised, or a simple system where you release a cleat. They are needed as if you just had the trapeze take off further up the mast the crew weight does funny things to the rig and without them there is a good chance the rig will go over the bow downhill in waves

Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 07 Aug 14 at 11:46pm

Thanks, Null. So do they have to stay on the wire initially during drops to stop the mast top snapping? Gybing must be a bit iffy too?

-------------
http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC
http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class

Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 08 Aug 14 at 4:01am

Don't forget that if you are off the wire righting moment has decreased and thus the loads coming from the sail must have decreased too.

Posted By: Mike Holt
Date Posted: 08 Aug 14 at 4:59am

Upper mast support in not required to hold the mast up, it is to keep the mainsail looking and working correctly. As in you will go faster with than without.

Posted By: Pabs
Date Posted: 09 Aug 14 at 7:14am

So what number Waterat or Krywood should I be looking for? I am happy to update the boat as I understand the hull shape has stayed the same. when was the exotic material added to the boats and is there any mix of exotics you would stay away from?

-------------
Boatless and Clubless

Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 09 Aug 14 at 10:32am

http://parker-505.snack.ws" rel="nofollow - What about the new parker? For an 'old' boat I thought it looked the nuts. Have there been any results with it yet?

-------------
https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website

Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 09 Aug 14 at 10:36am

Or there's the http://parker-505.snack.ws/black-edition.html" rel="nofollow - Black Edition A snip at twenty grand, er that would be the best part of 35 thou, USD

-------------
https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website

Posted By: Pabs
Date Posted: 10 Aug 14 at 5:03am

Thanks iGRF but not interested in your views your obviously not reading the thread

-------------
Boatless and Clubless

Posted By: Oatsandbeans
Date Posted: 10 Aug 14 at 12:17pm

Interesting question re what exotics to avoid. The new Parker has a carbon Kevlar option. I personally would avoid any Kevlar in the hull laminate. It does little useful in a race boat hull. Its stiffness is not that good and it is completely useless in compression. If it ever gets exposed it will fluff up and cause problems. It absorbs moisture. The only thing it could improve is the ultimate penetraion resistance in an impact ( not really an issue in a racing dinghy). Carbon skins maybe with a bit of glass on the outside skin are the best. On core materials -a Nomex honeycomb would give the best stiffness/weight properties, but this is not without its own issues and if it is not done right will be a horror. Cross-linked PVC is a good option generally for weight and properties.

Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 10 Aug 14 at 12:19pm

Originally posted by Pabs

parkers are bad??????

Oh dear which bit of your thread did I misread then?

Parkers are not all bad, they dominated 505 building for a period and are now trying for a come back, obviously out of your pocket range, if you're scrabbling around for old second hand junk, but others might find the new parker interesting, I know I did.

-------------
https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website

Posted By: L123456
Date Posted: 10 Aug 14 at 8:58pm

Originally posted by Pabs

Thanks iGRF but not interested in your view

Won't stop him giving it to you though ...

Posted By: Blue One
Date Posted: 11 Aug 14 at 9:40pm

Originally posted by L123456

Originally posted by Pabs

Thanks iGRF but not interested in your view

Won't stop him giving it to you though ...

And again and again and again........................................

Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 11 Aug 14 at 10:03pm

Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth I often crewed a Parker 5oh at Chew Valley in the Wednesday evening series. I quite often wished I was as fat as I am now, bug it was great fun. It was a pinky purple colour, lovely boat.

-------------
the same, but different...

Posted By: gordon1277
Date Posted: 12 Aug 14 at 8:16am

The trouble with Parkers was they lasted no time at all and the fit out was awful. I can remember Colin Ferrit with a brand new boat at Mounts Bay having to rebuild the thing after every race. Mike Lawton was not happy about it either, give one of the best promoters of the 505 and MD of Racing Sailboats a duff boat. Not long after that Colin started importing Kyrwoods.
Dont know about the new boats but on this forum Mike Holt knows the score on current boats and builders better than any body else. Ignore Grf he knows nothing about 505 he has an Alto.

-------------
Gordon
Lossc

Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 12 Aug 14 at 1:21pm

I would guess there there may be a different set of people at Parkers now. Sounds like it is going to be hard for them to shake off some of the old negative aspects of the image.

-------------
http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC
http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class

Posted By: Action
Date Posted: 15 Aug 14 at 12:12pm

Originally posted by Null

Van Munster was an Aussie builder that i believe built their boats out of Carbon prepreg. I think they went out of business a few years ago. Probably best you liaise with Mike directly Pabs. he is pretty much the Oracle for all things 505!

Van Munster is still going strong. Currently building me a 16 as we speak.

He is also the class builder of the 18s

Website

http://www.vanmunsterboats.com/

Action

-------------
Action

Posted By: Pabs
Date Posted: 24 Aug 14 at 3:43pm

Okay I have found an old Waterat 7607 and looked it up the association website where it says it was made with Clark Foam. After a bit more looking round on the web this may be a bad point as Clark Foam goes soft after a while. Should I stay away from this and look for something a bit newer? Its at my sailing club so I am going to have a look at it today any things to look for and what are the expensive upgrades? I see the flying pole mast fittings seem pretty expensive anything else

-------------
Boatless and Clubless

Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 24 Aug 14 at 9:33pm

Pabs, worth sending mike holt an email, I'm sure he will be back stateside celebrating his victory at the recent 505 worlds. He will be able to give you the low down, or speak with Larry (at waterat) on his thoughts about the longevity of the foam. It may also be worth popping a thread up on sailing anarchy as many active US 505 sailors check in there!

Posted By: Mike Holt
Date Posted: 25 Aug 14 at 8:16am

Still celebrating... Yes contact Larry Tuttle at Waterat for expert advice.

Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 25 Aug 14 at 8:20am

Originally posted by Mike Holt

Still celebrating... Yes contact Larry Tuttle at Waterat for expert advice.

Well done Mike, really deserved winner. Looked like an absolutely epic event! Russ H former GBR 8526

Posted By: gordon1277
Date Posted: 25 Aug 14 at 9:40am

Well Done Mike. Fantastic to see you win after so many years being so close.
Gordon 7621 was my ship a home build (not by me) Grace copy in kevlar carbon with a new lightweight 3mm ply foredeck by John Claridge to bring her back down to weight.
Great fun Times.

-------------
Gordon
Lossc