River Sailing
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11575
Printed Date: 13 Jul 25 at 4:11am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: River Sailing
Posted By: ASok
Subject: River Sailing
Date Posted: 31 Jul 14 at 9:38am
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I walked down to my local club yesterday morning - Henley Sailing Club
The sun was shining and it was a cracking day and I wondered whether I need to invest in a cheap little plodder for the river. On the face of it river sailing looks like it could be really frustrating - small channel, inconsistent puffs of breeze, motor cruisers and a current. That said it does appeal to walk just up the road, have a bit of a play and maybe sail up to the pub. I know there are a few here that sail on rivers, so why do you chose those locations over a lake or the sea? Is it a choice or just location? |
Replies:
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 31 Jul 14 at 9:42am
| Beating up the bank at Henley in a National 12 past the fields of cows is one of life's pleasures |
Posted By: ASok
Date Posted: 31 Jul 14 at 10:52am
| Is that what they generally sail up there? I saw one N12 rigging yesterday |
Posted By: SUGmeister
Date Posted: 31 Jul 14 at 11:53am
Same as in an Enterprise! Big Thames Valley Bowl Ent Opens there in the 70s. One of the best meetings on the then circuit. ------------- Simon SUGmeister I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me. |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 31 Jul 14 at 12:08pm
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Being able to walk to the club is a big plus for me (at WSC). It's so easy to pop along for a bimble at the drop of a hat, and I can enjoy a drink afterwards without fear of the dreaded 'drink-drive'. I reckon I'd always join my local club, even if I did my main racing elsewhere. The only downside is maybe being liable for duties at both. A pity the RYA can't promote a clause for inclusion in clubs' rules whereby evidence of doing duties at your first club exempted you from duties at the other(s) (I've even concocted a draft clause...) ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 31 Jul 14 at 2:29pm
| Its a shame the RYA does not insist that you have to be a member of an RYA affiliated club in order to race at any level. I have seeing "RYA" being listed as a club against competitors names, I always assume that they are takers not givers. |
Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 31 Jul 14 at 3:24pm
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If you're a member of the RYA you're a direct giver instead of an indirect one... I would bet bucks to buttons that an individual RYA membership is priced higher than a club affiliation fee divided by the number of members. ------------- Nick D-Zero 316 |
Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 31 Jul 14 at 3:28pm
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On the topic of duties, the majority of clubs exist thru the efforts of their members in carrying out duties (race officer, safety, galley, bar, maintenance, the list goes on). If we were able to 'opt out' of club#2 on the basis that we've done our bit for club#1 then doesn't club#2 suffer? You could argue that it would all even itself out across the country, but it just doesn't feel right to me. ------------- Nick D-Zero 316 |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 31 Jul 14 at 5:15pm
Yes, I would argue that it would even itself out... provided all clubs required the same number of duties be done. Maybe the wording should refer to duties being done at the club demanding the higher number of duties  ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: PeterG
Date Posted: 31 Jul 14 at 6:15pm
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If you're a member of the RYA you're a direct giver instead of an indirect one.. You are indeed a direct giver - to the RYA, and of course many of us choose to be both club and RYA members. However, those who compete on the open circuit with RYA individual membership alone are not contributing directly to the national club system which is what allows the vast majority of those opens to take place. While opens certainly bring in much needed funds to many clubs it's also only the existence of those clubs, and the large amount of voluntary work their members put in that provides the foundation on which sailing and the open and nationals circuits depend. ------------- Peter Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59 |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 31 Jul 14 at 6:18pm
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Are organisers obliged (by the RYA) to accept entries from competitors listing "RYA* as their 'club'? ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: ChrisI
Date Posted: 31 Jul 14 at 6:19pm
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Henley SC is a very friendly club and on a nice stretch of the river, so give it a go.
And yes, river sailing is fun (.... but you would expect me to say that). I think all the items you mention make it challenging rather than frustrating.....there will always be some patterns to pick up in the apparent randomness of those things, over time. |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 31 Jul 14 at 6:26pm
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Sorry I don't agree, by supporting a club you are supporting sailing at grass roots level. As I see it, in not being a member of a club, sailors are happy to attend open meetings and championships manned and facilitated by volunteers, but are unwilling to contribute time themselves. I would suggest that the value of time exceeds that of any subscription to the RYA. I would also suggest that the RYA does very little to directly support ordinary dinghy sailors interests, when push comes to shove, such as the Thames Sailing Club planning issue the RYA were unwilling to support a venerable sailing club for fear of upsetting the RYA's Motor Boat owning members. I resigned at this point, despite having given up my time for eight years on the Technical Committee. I accept that youth and Olympic dinghy sailors benefit greatly from the RYA but this is mainly through support from Sport England. I would have greater respect for the organisation if they were to support older sailors with coaching programmes in the same way as youth and Olympic aspirants. I don't feel guilty for no longer being a direct member of the RYA since my club and two class associations contribute on my behalf. I don't see why the greater part of my RYA sub would support non-dinghy sailing activities. I would challenge anyone on this forum to list sailors who sail as RYA who have volunteered for office in a club or class association. Moved on a bit from tacking around cows at Henley! Probably warrants a thread on its own.
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Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 31 Jul 14 at 6:32pm
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Our neighbouring river club brought it's oppie fleet over for the day yesterday, so they could experience 'open water sailing'. We are a kilometre square gravel pit. Poor little things were a bit thrown by not having banks to determine when they should tack. ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: Blue One
Date Posted: 31 Jul 14 at 9:09pm
Still have that problem after learning to sail on a very narrow river at Warwick.
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Posted By: Riv
Date Posted: 31 Jul 14 at 10:17pm
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River sailing: 1976, 13yrs old. Mangy old Ent roll tacking, chasing convoys of motor cruisers and catching their wash. No wind, paddling home or swimming home towing the boat. Getting sworn at and having bait thrown at me by danglers. Almost getting rammed by rowing eights, manned by gorillas who are being screamed at by chimps and chased by loud blokes in tweed jackets in catamarran power boats. Sudden wind fluctuations as it eddies between trees, and the lovely sound of a whole line of Ents, Merlins, Solos and OKs tied up to the landing stage just before the afternoon race. Cream teas on the lawn and a short bike ride home. I had a lot of fun and learnt a lot at my local club on the Thames, so it's definitely worth doing. Later I moved to one of those concrete puddles in the Thames valley. Yes it was great to blast in my IC, but a concrete wall is a concrete wall and it even had danglers, so got bored with running around in circles and left sailing for a few years. Now I sail on a river in the SW, it's almost the same, ferries, moored yachts, massive wind shifts, seals and salmon fishermen, but the danglers are nice to me and the rowing sculls and 4s are polite! I guess some of us go back to what we enjoyed in our youth. Familiarity means a lot. |
Posted By: ASok
Date Posted: 01 Aug 14 at 7:31am
I leave a thread alone for an afternoon and it descends into duties rants and the RYA! 
Anyway, sounds likes its an appealing difference for those that have done it. I'm going to have a wander down at the weekend and have a chat to a few people. The big draw for me is having it within walking distance. That's going to be worth the membership alone, even if I have somewhere else to play further afield. |
Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 01 Aug 14 at 8:35am
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I have sailed at a small River club for the best part of 30 years now. Why? well simple really. Its local and i have always been a member (farther is an old commodore) I will always join no matter what happens with work, relocation etc. I dont sail there much anymore, mainly because i prefered faster boats, but the attraction of a midweek adventure with my daughter is much more appealing than the bore of a midweek reach on a gravel pit. We can sail for about 7 miles in one direction and can tak in pubs and some beautiful wildlife. We can sail the graduate into a bank and have a picnic! Furthermore without even dropping the mast and moving location we can have some very close and tactical racing. I both love sailing on the river and hate it in the same breath! Forget screaming reaches, it will never happen, you will go mad calling for water or from trying to understand why someone 4ft away from you has just picked up a gust. Sailing on a river is to me what grass routes sailing is all about, the river clubs all have a strong and long history. So much more soul than some of the little gravel pit clubs not too far away from us!
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 01 Aug 14 at 9:14am
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Something I've always wanted to retire to, sailing a river, all those descriptions above, sound idyllic, I like sailing pretty much everywhere, I love our small lake as much as I love sailing the sea, but for different reasons, we have no rivers near here, but we do have a long term plan to maybe move up to the broads, some excellent river sailing up there. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 01 Aug 14 at 11:49am
I had some excellent sailing around Wroxham in oppies as a kid- in fact some of best results ever were there, I think the broads has very unique vibe- quietly competitive sailing, big emphasis on 'getting away from it all'. As for club membership - clubs need to move with the times, an option to pay more and opt out of duties would mean I would retain club membership at probably two sailing clubs in my locality. When my free time is limited to maybe 10 weekend individual days a year, it's simply not worth losing 2 or 3 per club to do duties. It just doesn't stack up- hence why the nomadic nature of windsurfing suits my sailing requirements more currently. As and when I get another dinghy (probably Autumn 2015 if my house move proceeds), I doubt I will rejoin any club.
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Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 01 Aug 14 at 12:04pm
That's a big part of your life (to judge by your keenness on this forum) to give up. ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 01 Aug 14 at 12:16pm
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Nope - just a year to let things settle down with the move (taking on some land, horses etc so time is going to be even more restrictive). The biggest dilemma was giving up the early adopter benefit from Rodney on the D-Zero- that boat is truly lovely and I still want one eventually, but I need to be realistic about how many times it will be likely to get wet over the next 12 months. it felt awful saying I needed to put this on hold.... I think both Dan and Suntouched are genuinely on to something very interesting with that boat. I don't think I've heard of anyone who doesn't appreciate it in context for what it actually is - a performance 'beach boat'. If charter boats are available, this might be the better option for the odd class event... I know what will happen though once I charter one, best make sure I don't take any roof bars with me, or at least delete the internet banking app of my phone.  ------------- |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 01 Aug 14 at 12:47pm
But how much more? Supposing you do 4 days of duties a year, that's two weeks of weekends, so roughly 1/24 of an FTE. If the club isn't paying starvation wages and is employing someone on a 5 day week. and making the assumption that cost of employment is roughly double headline wages then that could be 1500 quid. Which seems rather a lot, unless your club is for Russian and Middle Eastern businessmen. Mind with someone available to do maintenance 3 days a week the club ought to be in superb order... So the only way it can work is if the club can find income streams during the week or depend on part timers working weekends only, which makes it much harder.. |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 01 Aug 14 at 12:55pm
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Judging by the demographic around most sailing clubs, there are quite a few retired blokes (and women) who would be willing to take on an extra duty for £50 cash, or £50 off their own membership fee... that's the sort of levy I think folks in my position would be willing to pay, per duty if the duty requirements are typical 2 per annum. I would even throw students and youth members into the equation. When I was 16 I could almost certainly have set a better course then than now, and would much rather earn £50 running some racing at my own sailing club than stacking shelves in One Stop. Sure, folks could arrange this as a side deal within the boat park, but there would still be a certain tut-tutting element, not pulling your weight crap- which frankly makes the whole thing feel rather tawdry rather than pragmatic. ------------- |
Posted By: ASok
Date Posted: 01 Aug 14 at 1:26pm
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I couldn't agree more with Kneewrecker. Taking part in duties is a great idea and I really don't mind getting involved. However, pressures at certain phases of your life mean that you just can't dedicate time to that and would rather buy your way out.
I'm involved with growing a start-up company and my chosen sailing location was on the coast 1.5hrs away from me. In the end I wasn't using the boat, but still travelling down to fulfil a duty. Had to choose between family, work and sanity and gave the membership up and sold the boat. The locality of it all really appeals to me at the minute. I like the idea of using the river that's on my doorstep. It will mean changing my expectations of a day on the water, but going by some of the comments here its going to a different sort of fun. Personally, I think that's exciting me enough to start looking for another boat. |
Posted By: Roger
Date Posted: 01 Aug 14 at 1:51pm
That's exactly what our club offers, it's 2 OOD duties a year and opt out is £80.00 or £40.00 per duty, this is paid to members who can or wish to do extra, we have no staff just volunteer members. BTW you cannot opt out of being race officer which is a separate duty done by just those who race, you have to negotiate swops. |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 01 Aug 14 at 2:29pm
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sounds like a sensible club Roger! ------------- |
Posted By: The Moo
Date Posted: 01 Aug 14 at 8:04pm
| Is there sufficient take up from the have nots to cover the duties of the haves? Does it create any ill feeling? I can't see it working in a very small club like ours where commitment is probably more important than cash..... |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 01 Aug 14 at 8:57pm
| Another disadvantage is that you are effectively dividing the club into those who contribute and those who don't, and the club will be at risk of being run solely by those who do, which is not healthy. |
Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 01 Aug 14 at 10:12pm
Totally agree Jim 
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Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 01 Aug 14 at 10:31pm
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Duties can also function to re-activate members who have become dormant. Visiting the club once more, they remember what they've been missing. ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 02 Aug 14 at 6:18pm
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Yep, 'duties'... :-( ------------- |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 02 Aug 14 at 7:40pm
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River sailing is a pleasure (well most of the time), thankfully there are plenty of great boats developed from the British love of sailing up and down rivers; National 12's, Merlins, Enterprise all great, plus the X0/X1. Do Putney still do the race up to Westminster Bridge?
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