So how long does it take to get 25 RIBs off that beach in the morning and back again in the evening?

So Graeme, are you saying you were wrong?  Again?  

and now for the reality check.... wait until they go off to university.  Sure some will continue to sail, they probably ought to.  It might be in Fireflies or crappy Larks, but they are about to take part in some of the best sailing they could ever wish for, even if they don't quite appreciate yet, or take a snotty view from the wire of a 29er.  

However a lot will find other sports, including competitive drinking/shagging which takes over their social life away from the assumptions of parents and RYA squad coaches... they'll make new friends, and whilst there'll always be a fondness towards their sailing buddies, these new friends from all walks of life, will become their best friends.... it's unlikely many will also be sailors.  Besides a Combined Studies degree in Staffordshire is never going to have the same sailing vibe as 'Leisure Management' at Solent Uni... and unlike in my day, not many kids can afford to pick their uni without at least some consideration for the academic aspects.

Okay so the first filter has happened- Once those who've maintained an interest in sailing have graduated, how many of them will partner with either a) someone who also sails or b) understanding enough to encourage it in the face of the five-figure grad debts and poor recruitment options.  Then they've got to get a nice car, a mortgage and a wedding.... all of which assumes they are actually being paid to work, rather than abused through the 'intern system' that frankly makes my piss boil, no one should work for free- it's 21st century, first-world slavery.   

The final filter- add in a sprog or two and that boat fund needs some careful hiding / manipulation that only a few become masters of.  Even the best of boat fund embezzlers find other life matters catch up eventually, as no matter how cash rich that secret pot might be, it's worthless without that other great commodity of life to go with it: free time.  

Sorry Graeme, but pre-uni kid sailing events have always been super-popular and full of life and prosperity.  I'm not knocking that, I'm just saying you should change the tint back to something more gloomy.... pink is not your colour.  

BTW- I bought my 420 from Deal, and even though it was most certainly the wrong side of the bridge, I couldn't help but think it looked a thoroughly awesome place to sail.... 

What twice in the same year, I cannot see him admitting to that.....

Wow, dunno about rose coloured glasses, but you seem to be taking a very yellow jaundiced view.

Two hundred or more kids actively and skillfully engaged in sailing:  what's not to like?

Apart from the French model of kids sailing on every school sports afternoon (which I suspect is really confined to very few coastal areas), what other activity do you think would do more for sailing?

You seem to be starting off talking about junior and uni sailing then going on about how society and economics is killing sailing.

I'm not convinced.

Either it is true that 

there is nothing -  absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in  boats

or it is not, in which case we should all probably be spending much more of our time and money on satisfyingly enhancing our social and emotional relationships <g>.

nothing is not to like.... I think that's great.  But I wonder how many of them will buy their own boats when they get older, participate in club sailing, travel around to sailing events, teach their own kids to sail, run oppy/tera camps etc... etc..... 

10-20% would be my guess... would be nice to be proved wrong.  

BUT those will be the long experienced backbone members that will keep our clubs on the rails.

Many kids drop out but return when they have families of their own, the cycle repeats.

What age did you all start? I was 11 (once)

in the grand scheme of things, I reckon you are quite right 

in the short-term, if a few clubs fold or can't find the people to run them on a day to day basis, then so what... a bit a concentration might not be a bad thing.

though not popular with some, junior/youth training/racing and the dreaded squads do engage many young sailors more than just trailing round at the back or sitting in the front of a parents boat at their home clubs.

I am often surprised to find strong reluctance by some parents when I suggest taking their kids to a local event, is it fear of the unknown?

I accept that squads pull active parents away and stop them sailing, but for most it is temporary and I for one will return much older but a bit wiser and am confident that my offspring will stay connected with sailing in one way or another.

You do make me laugh.....so the squads haven't produced the most medalled olympic sailor of all time, his mate with the star medals etc etc.  Chamging history as well as the laws of physics are we?  But I liked the thrust of your original piece. 

Yes, we have youth development squads at state level, and the Australian Sailing Team and some other feeder programs at national level.

We also have State Class Associations for most classes, which may conduct ongoing squad training or one-off clinics for the class (usually on a non-selective basis).

State Squads don't work quite like UK Regional Squads because Australian States are from four to ten times the size of the whole UK, except for Victoria, which is about the same size, and sailing population in states is irregularly distributed into cities and areas hundreds of miles apart.  State Squads thus don't deliver readily geographically accessible development, for example, in NSW, if you're outside Sydney-Newcastle-Wollongong, then you're going to find it very dififficult to get to squad events.

Also, we don't usually run 'squad regattas'.  Squad members participate in class events at state and sometimes sub-state regional level, and in annual state and national youth regattas.

But the bottom line is yes we use talent-spotting, and competitive selection to group young sailors to receive good coaching and logistic support in a dedicated, competitive environment.

Originally posted by iGRF If you want to train winners, you have to separate them from the system,

No, you don't need to do that.  What you need to do is provide kids with potential with:

Kids (and adults) drop out of competitive sport for all sorts of reasons, not least of which is that some of them didn't really want to be there in the first place.

I understand Graham's story about the girl who stopped windsurfing altogether after just one Squad session, but that sounds like an isolated incident of bad coaching, rather than an innate fault of the squad system.  Surely nobody is saying that the squad system is systematically delivering bad coaching that is driving kids out of the sport?

Originally posted by craiggo I dont really like the squad model, and would prefer instead to get local kids locally competing against each other at their own club with the very occasional open etc to gauge performance against those from other clubs,

This is all very well for lager clubs with viable fleets of boats suitable for junior development, but spare a thought for kids at a small club, with maybe total of six 420s, two with rank beginners, and maybe only one or two seriously competitive.  Sailing in a fleet like that will do nothing to develop talent.

And it's no answer to say that they should be sailing in the Merlins/Lightenings/whatever that is sailied at the club.  At Squad level, kids should be starting to focus on class-specific techniques, relevant to their pathway, and they need serious sized fleets to do this.

So kids with potential should be denied effective coaching and development to keep clubs more viable?

It's not delusional, it's affordability... the cost is not what is paid up front, it's the depreciation and running costs.  TCO in IT circles....  

Some boats are worse than others admittedly.  And there are some absolutely bargains...when I was sailing a Laser I made money out of it on face value, same with my 600 and my 200.  That's buying second hand and buying at the right price.  I'm sure the sub-£1000 boats on that FB page would represent good value club racing, I doubt you'd lose much on them.  Frankly if you get two years out of it and then give it away, that's cheap sailing.  I'm not sure any of them suddenly improve the amount of free time to use them.  In fact, they could be worse... I don't think I've had any sailing binned of for gear failure for quite some time now.  I put that down to buying new or nearly new boats.

These days I don't need to consider the upfront cost as much as I once did, hence if I want a new dinghy, I'll have one.  It's far from delusional to accept the depreciation that comes with buying new consumer goods... be that TVs, cars, surf boards or sailing dinghies.  I'd say it's far MORE delusional to think you can use something for 3 years and still sell it for what you paid for it- which is the case with the weird ol' world of sh*tbox sailing dinghies.  Some folks may look at the second hand value of popular dinghies and cite that as its achilles heel of the entire industry.... new cars sell because old cars depreciate. I know floating that theory on this forum won't be popular though.

My main boat for the past 6 years was second hand when I bought it.  It's cost me €500 a year in depreciation- nothing really- what's that, one monthly payment on a dicky car, a quarter of a lawn fee at a golf club, a third of a good mountain bike, a lap dance with extras???