i14 compared to 29er?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11480
Printed Date: 14 Jul 25 at 9:38am
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Topic: i14 compared to 29er?
Posted By: frow3n
Subject: i14 compared to 29er?
Date Posted: 20 May 14 at 10:13am
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Hi, as the next boat in the saga we're considering an international 14. Now my question is, how difficult are the 14s to sail in comparison to the 29er? It would be a newer boat with a T-Foil if that helps. Thanks in advance ------------- Laser Radial 201357 29er 1907 Queen Mary SC |
Replies:
Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 20 May 14 at 10:50am
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Depends on the design of the 14. Difficult is a relative term, its not a fair comparison a 29er is a single trapeze boat, that broadly seems to be a youth class. The 14 is...Well not. What do you want the boat for? Club Sailing, Blasting about? doing the 14 worlds and POW? How long have you sailed the 29er? and what is your all up weight? Or if you want a more accurate answer. a 14 is exactly 302.443% harder to sail than a 29er
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Posted By: frow3n
Date Posted: 20 May 14 at 10:52am
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boat for club sailing and doing occasional events. we've sailed the 29er for a year and we're good with the boat handling ect. but we're just too heavy for it. All up weight is probably 140-150 kgs Design we're looking at is the Bieker 4
------------- Laser Radial 201357 29er 1907 Queen Mary SC |
Posted By: dynamicsails
Date Posted: 20 May 14 at 11:07am
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there are 14s about that are great value and would provide a lot of bang for buck on the second hand market, so long as you can splice rope and replace the fittings now and then to compare the 29er to the 14 is a big diffrence, similar to sail in theory you have one extra trapeeze the 14 will have a massive amount more power to control, in just 7-10 knots you are twin wiring and 10 upwards your de-powering, at your weight of 150 is about the lightest competiive weight, there are lighter we had a world champ at 145. So long as you know what your getting into the 14 is a top boat even for club sailing and blasting about! the best way into a fourteen and know what its about is try crewing one, email me your expericance and contact details and I'll see if some one is short on crew one week end dave@dynamicsails.com |
Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 20 May 14 at 12:35pm
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Dave is bang on.
If you have the skiff sailing principles nailed in a 29er then same rules apply with the 14, there is just a smaller lighter hull, much bigger sails esp kite, and usually more string. And second trap. More of a pain to launch than a 29er because of the rudder and it'll rip your face off if you don't pay it respect in breeze but in light and med breezes it will be a class apart from the 29er. 150kg is just fine. Splicing/general boatwork skills help. There is a b4 in particular on the market that is outrageous value - you'd have to be a) very very good and b) spend at least 3 times more to see any improvement at all on that boat. Boats themselves generally very robust. World champ boat now 8yrs old I believe. Friendly class who drink beer afterwards not cyclists drinks. Get involved! |
Posted By: frow3n
Date Posted: 20 May 14 at 8:20pm
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They certainly look very good value for money. More so than the 49er. I also like the fact is quite a bit smaller... 49er just looks like a pain to manoeuvre around the boat park! Any tips for sailing the 14? youtube videos don't give much of an indication! ------------- Laser Radial 201357 29er 1907 Queen Mary SC |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 24 May 14 at 6:41am
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....go sailing in an i14, then you'll buy one and be able to store that experience for the rest of your sailing life, I have, it was brilliant, and when my boy gets old enough and IF I am still fit enough, I'm going back for sure! |
Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 24 May 14 at 2:10pm
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Plenty of guys in 50s and some in 60s helming 14s competitively, often with sons and indeed daughters crewing. Its probs fair to say that most of those guys aren't going to be doing ironman triathalons any time soon either. As long as you can get on and off the boat, and get in it after a capsize you are ok - physical demands on 14 helm are pretty minimal in normal sailing! |
Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 24 May 14 at 2:14pm
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As for tips, the main difference from the 29er is tuning options- basically try to ignore that once you have got a good base set. Apart from that its learning how to use the tfoil - which in principle is quite a straightforward thing. Daggers are long and you only have it all the way down in the light. Just standard HP / skiff techniques. Closest to training at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_9KJGEp76I also look up "penman14" on youtube |
Posted By: NickA
Date Posted: 27 May 14 at 6:32pm
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Every year at my club, a couple of keen young blokes (usually wearing bandanas and Oakleys) turn up with a "BARGAIN" i14 then proceed to amuse the old farts drinking tea on the terrace by failing to sail it out of the bay. After a few attempts it's consigned to the boat park. Which is one reason I guess that they're good value. Nothing like a 29er surely, which though wobbly is a fairly basic low-power youth boat. My friend hollandsd of this forum reckons his i14 nearly bankrupt him due to its continual hunger for new ropes! FANTASTIC boats mind and look totally brilliant fun - watching Sam Pascoe screaming his 14 upwind at Sailfest last year was a thing of joy. Go for it, but try before you buy (and try where not too many old farts are watching  )------------- Javelin 558 Contender 2574 |
Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 27 May 14 at 9:28pm
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It must be said, as long as your i14 is set up ok i.e no chafe points and the blocks all work, then it needn't chew a lot of rope. You can of course spend a kings ransom on various development stuff if you are that way inclined. Not too many do though. |
Posted By: frow3n
Date Posted: 27 May 14 at 11:14pm
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interestingly enough I've always been quite the 'tinkerer.' I'm often inclined to doing boat work after a sail and although there isn't much to do on a laser I always like adjusting settings ect. Therefore it seems like an i14 might suit me. Obviously there's the overpowered part in comparison to a 29er but we have only been overpowered very rarely. Manoeuvres we have pretty much nailed. The international 14 does seem like it could be a bit of a learning curve but I've twin trapeze helmed before in an 800. Seems like I might be able to handle it. Is there anyone near QM who could give a trial sail at all to my crew? Thanks, ------------- Laser Radial 201357 29er 1907 Queen Mary SC |
Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 28 May 14 at 12:29am
| Agree with dan above, our old 14 didn't burn through rope at all. Kite halyard blocks, yes! But that was probably down to the standard block specification. We had our fair share of breakages but nothing really major to be honest. |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 28 May 14 at 10:29am
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What's going to help A LOT, is if you are AEROBICALLY FIT. If you're not I wouldn't bother until you are. It's not that you need to be super fit to sail a i14, but when you are learning it's going to make a hell of a difference. Especially for your forward hand. ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: gordon1277
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 9:42am
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The main reason to be fit for both is climbing back in I found!
Also good front crawl speed helps.Please note much better to try at your age than unfit and over 50. I tried one for a year with not very experienced crew challenging in many ways especially sailing in solent chop. But we had a lot of laughs. We had an early Bieker 2 which was not easy to sail before the winged rudder. Have a go great boats. ------------- Gordon Lossc |
Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 9:55am
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How have you got on with the 29er? What are your results like? The I14 is a beast compared to a 29er in terms of the power ... it will also be considerably more expensive to maintain. Are you wanting to race or just blast around?
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Posted By: frow3n
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 9:57am
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exams have meant we haven't done events in the 29er but boat handling is sorted. I have sailed an 800 quite a few times so twin trapeze helming isn't a problem. Also attempted a musto a few times. The 29er we've been sailing for a year and haven't capsized all that much. About 5 times in total I believe. Racing is what we'd prefer to do ------------- Laser Radial 201357 29er 1907 Queen Mary SC |
Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 10:08am
Well I can't but help think you'd be better off turning that boat handling into results. I14 racing is limited unless you sail in Chichester Harbour ... or travel a lot and I am guessing you are not going to be driving your I14 all over the UK to find another boat to race against.
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Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 12:21pm
800 is quite a different beast to an i14 How did the Musto experience go, I would gauge that against an i14 better. If you are not overwhelmed by the Musto then you should be fine in a i14 ( caveat: Musto in some sea breeze not a gentle inland zephyr ) ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: frow3n
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 2:35pm
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the musto was ok... only capsized in the lulls really... and the occasional unexplained downwind capsize. Capsizes interestingly enough were all to windward ------------- Laser Radial 201357 29er 1907 Queen Mary SC |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 2:38pm
sounds like me... diagnosis = didn't read the water & move quick enough. I had the same issues with my 600, arguably it was actually harder, as off wind, I found the kite gave massive stability, not to mention the chines giving a little bit of grace. I loved both boats for when I had them, but I do think they required far more commitment than I could give them, hence it was the right decision to have loved and lost, than not loved at all. A 14 would be worse- same level of commitment expected from 2 people's diaries. The obvious question.... why not get a singlehanded skiff? Or a Moth.
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Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 3:38pm
Sounds like it wasn't very windy then; as Jack says have another go when there is some real breeze then think about it ... The 800 is pretty tame compared to a 14.
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Posted By: frow3n
Date Posted: 30 May 14 at 12:00pm
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I found the 800 easy to sail. No problems at all :) I'm giving the musto another go soon so we'll see how that goes ------------- Laser Radial 201357 29er 1907 Queen Mary SC |
Posted By: BBSCFaithfull
Date Posted: 02 Jun 14 at 4:44pm
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Hello, As a current 14 owner, would be great to get more youth in the class. If you two are Serious about 14s we can sort a ride for you (In my boat, with me). I sail at Bough Beech and would be happy to take one of you out for a go and release you two depending on competence. Warning! 14s are fairly addictive .......
------------- Greatfully Sponsored By www.allgoodfun.com Int 14 GBR 1503!! |
Posted By: BBSCFaithfull
Date Posted: 02 Jun 14 at 4:49pm
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P.S Ideal first boat http://gbr.international14.org/index.php?option=com_aclsfgpl&Itemid=125&ct=bfs&md=details&id=75&lrgphp=1&lnph=1& ------------- Greatfully Sponsored By www.allgoodfun.com Int 14 GBR 1503!! |
Posted By: frow3n
Date Posted: 02 Jun 14 at 5:15pm
I shall have a chat to the crew about having a go and let you know, I personally have no trapeze harness (helm of the 29er). I will get back to you though. Thanks, ------------- Laser Radial 201357 29er 1907 Queen Mary SC |
Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 02 Jun 14 at 6:37pm
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Nice one Alex, That is the boat to get, its an absolute steal. |
Posted By: BBSCFaithfull
Date Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 9:48am
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No Probs. Have Pm'd you my details. Alex ------------- Greatfully Sponsored By www.allgoodfun.com Int 14 GBR 1503!! |