Laser control line thickness?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11465
Printed Date: 13 Jul 25 at 1:11pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Laser control line thickness?
Posted By: frow3n
Subject: Laser control line thickness?
Date Posted: 09 May 14 at 3:48pm
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Hi all, In the process of re-roping my laser full rig and have a question about the downhaul/outhaul for the line that is actually controlled (the primary I think) as in the one that the handles come from. Is a 3mm dyneema rope sufficient in terms of thickness? Thanks in advance ------------- Laser Radial 201357 29er 1907 Queen Mary SC |
Replies:
Posted By: ian4327
Date Posted: 09 May 14 at 4:09pm
| I use 4mm Excel. |
Posted By: frow3n
Date Posted: 09 May 14 at 4:14pm
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well I think I may head in the direction of 4mm then, I think its what I currently use. Just not a fan of the rooster ropes... actively despise them at the moment, getting caught and all that. Planning on splicing my dyneema onto blocks ect. which will involve some cutting of the rope. What's the easiest way to cut/seal dyneema after a cut so it doesn't look terrible? Thanks ------------- Laser Radial 201357 29er 1907 Queen Mary SC |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 10 May 14 at 7:57am
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3mm is unlikely to grip in the cleats effectively so you may find it will slip. I use 4mm on mine and have never had an issue. ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: Ruscoe
Date Posted: 10 May 14 at 9:54am
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I don't understand what you mean by rooster ropes get caught? From my experience in multiple classes the rooster control lines are excellent value, I certainly can't see any disadvantage over other manufacturers. Unless you just want something that looks better (no problem with that). As for splicing the cascades in your controls you don't need to seal the ends as they will be hidden in side the splice ------------- |
Posted By: frow3n
Date Posted: 10 May 14 at 10:10am
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Its partly for looking better and I don't like the feel of the rooster ropes on my hands. They feel far too stiff after a season of using them. I prefer the feel of dyneema ------------- Laser Radial 201357 29er 1907 Queen Mary SC |
Posted By: Ruscoe
Date Posted: 10 May 14 at 4:42pm
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Changing for aesthetics is fine mate, but dont slate a good product because of it! Also what do you mean by dynemma? I guess you mean something like excel pro or racing? There is very little load in laser control lines out of the cascades so any pre stretched rope shoul do. ------------- |
Posted By: frow3n
Date Posted: 10 May 14 at 4:49pm
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dyneema Marlow D12 - 4mm in yellow and blue :) Its mostly so I can mark settings on the rope, so far I can't do it on the rooster ropes... well I just end up not being able to see it haha ------------- Laser Radial 201357 29er 1907 Queen Mary SC |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 10 May 14 at 6:54pm
4mm D12 for control lines on a Laser = whatever you say  Come on, sorry about the sarcasm but better people than me have answered your question.
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Posted By: Ruscoe
Date Posted: 10 May 14 at 8:17pm
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Do not use d12 for control lines buddy its not designed for that at all. 4mm pre stretched rope like i mentioned earlier is whats needed. if you think rooster control line tangles that would be nothing compaired to D12. ------------- |
Posted By: frow3n
Date Posted: 10 May 14 at 8:25pm
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[message lost] ------------- Laser Radial 201357 29er 1907 Queen Mary SC |
Posted By: Ruscoe
Date Posted: 10 May 14 at 9:05pm
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Well is stand corrected, he is however using something like 5mm I would think, but could be wrong. Me personally I wouldn't use it for what I term hand adjusted control lines, the lack of cover make sit more susceptible to tangle and knotting, it also won't help with wear. ------------- |
Posted By: frow3n
Date Posted: 10 May 14 at 9:08pm
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5mm could work quite well I think, its pricey though!! is there any way to cover the dyneema once I've spliced it in ? ------------- Laser Radial 201357 29er 1907 Queen Mary SC |
Posted By: Ruscoe
Date Posted: 10 May 14 at 9:56pm
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I don't understand what you mean by cover mate, the standard control lines I mentioned earlier have dynemma cores. If you buy d12 there is no coating so to speak, if you watch the Marlow or rooster splicing videos you will understand how it works a bit more I would suggest. ------------- |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 10 May 14 at 10:18pm
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All getting a bit crossed up here. If you want spliceable lines without the overkill of D12 perhaps this could work in some areas. polyester 4mm 12 strand. http://www.pinbax.com/index.asp?selection=detailed&uid=37250&cg=10&mc=112&cct=6&sc=1002
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Posted By: NHRC
Date Posted: 10 May 14 at 10:48pm
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Over the last four years I have spent hours with Jon Emmett perfecting the Laser race kit ropes. We decided that 4mm sk 78 control lines work best. The best manufacturer by far is Maffioli.
If anyone would like one of my race kits email me. Gareth@thenottinghillriggingco.com |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 10 May 14 at 10:53pm
| Wow you are using the good stuff; I'm learning something here. |
Posted By: NHRC
Date Posted: 10 May 14 at 10:58pm
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I also have an excellent traveller. My first part control lines are far superior too. Now using sk99 high modulus dynes a on the vang.
Testing showed that of three first parts on the vang, d12 stretched 70mm, sk90 20mm and sk 99 only 2.5mm... That was after a 20 minute sail in a force 4 breeze at Weymouth. We've done the research and proven what works best. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 11 May 14 at 7:28am
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Nice simple, cheap one design, the Laser...
------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: NHRC
Date Posted: 11 May 14 at 7:32am
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I can make a better quality race pack cheaper than laser, rooster or any other decent competitor sell.
You can make bigger performance gains with altering foils and working on the hull of a laser, still class legal, than you will by changing rope. Good rope means less expense replacing, more effective control and that you can trust your gear not to fail. |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 11 May 14 at 9:04am
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In my opinion (and my 12+ years of racing Lasers). You do not need to mark the control lines, you should be able to do it by feel. Kicker is minimum block to block for upwind gradually winding more on until you are still overpwoered then easing back off but still no less than block to block. Cunningham there is no point in marking the line because your sail stretches, if you use different sails for different purposes (training, club racing, open meeting, etc...) then then calibration will mean nothing. It may be useful to put a calibration strip or some graduated marks on the lower mast so you can see how much you are pulling on for any given day. Use the upper block as your reference point. Outhaul put calibration strips or graduated marks at the end of your boom then use your clew strap/clew sleeve as your reference point as again the setting will be different depending on the state of your sail. Personally I have no marks or reference points. I set my cunningham up so I get max travel and go on how the boat feels to work out how much I need. Outhaul I set at max off each time and tweak it in and out as I sail. Kicker I have a knot at max off so I know that at a windward mark rounding I can just pull it out the cleat and let it go then tweak it back in if required once I am settled on the next leg. As for the Rooster control lines, I have them for all my control lines. They do not tangle at all and seem to flow through the blocks nicely. When you put them on did you work your hand along the length of each one to make sure the inner core was not twisted? ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: Andymac
Date Posted: 11 May 14 at 7:05pm
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I pretty much echo the consensus of the other replies.
Just for clarity, in the original post; the primary line is the first part of the control system and is under the greatest strain. The part that you handle and cleat is the secondary line. I couldn't tell you which brand of secondary line I'm currently using, but they are Dyneema core with Polyester outer. Strength and low stretch in the core and good handling, cleating and lower abrasion with the polyester outer. 4mm cunningham and outhaul, Kicker 5mm with a plastic loop handle over for comfort/handling. I always tie the cunningham & outhaul loose ends together (grab one, and you've got both). The loose ends tied together help keep tangles at bay. I would only use naked Dyneema for the primary lines and the traveller which is pretty much a static line anyway. |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 12 May 14 at 9:50am
Agreed except I don't use naked dyneema for my traveller as it is an unnecessary expense for the level I sail at. Having a decent low tiller make more difference than the tiny bit you will gain by the traveller not moving up as the rope stretches a little. ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |