Inflatable Technology
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11439
Printed Date: 14 Jul 25 at 9:36am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Inflatable Technology
Posted By: iGRF
Subject: Inflatable Technology
Date Posted: 22 Apr 14 at 4:48pm
|
Clearly someone missed me.. and in case you wondered what I've been up to, in my commercial life I'm still tasked with the object of providing means of water based leisure to those young enough to avoid sitting down in silly stupid old fashioned sailing dinghy things.
However, ever the entrepreneur watchful for an angle I've had my eye on the developing 'drop stitch' technology being employed in the SUP market (Stand Up Paddleboards), basically a chord is stitched top to bottom to assist the envelope to 'remember' a given rocker so the paddle board will surf like a regular board. Initially they were crude, but quite effective and there was a French produced dinghy video on here not so long ago, but the technology as it was then wasn't that dimensionally stable in as much as torsional rigidity wasn't that great (they twisted). Well, there's another generation about to launch, new factory, German Technicians, China rather than Korea which has some rather impressive products I've just spent the week messing about on along with the Kitesurfing stuff I sell in order to keep me in the manner of dinghy I have become accustomed to. (Heavy 2nd Hand) So the thought of taking the stuff to the beach and blowing it up rather than all that lifting and dragging over shingle crap I now have to put up with as I've returned from my lake idyll back to the horrors of Hythe shore dump. They built the old generation type with a centreboard and mast foot from which to windsurf from, I'm wondering...... This new technology instead of a linear stitch pattern employs a scatter thread higher density drop stitch, think similar to Cuben Fibre style fibre pattern, plus it's two or three layer, so highly resistant to beach abuse. I guess the issue would be turning turtle or getting back in after a capsize if it were as buoyant as these things tend to be, but it's still got me wondering, you think an RS Aero is light, what if it were hollow and pumped up with air? Then when you finish you stow it in the back of the car. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Replies:
Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 22 Apr 14 at 4:58pm
|
Like a catapult beach cat? ------------- Everything I say is my opinion, honest |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 22 Apr 14 at 5:01pm
|
The trouble is there are substantial parts of a sailboat that must be *very* resistant to distortion and have considerable surface rigidity. But there are also parts that maybe don't need so much. I wonder about a RIB approach. Get rather expensive and complicated to build though. The trouble is a dinghy is largely a hollow structure full of air anyway. If you build say everything above the chines out of inflatable material then how much weight can you really save?
Inflated "drop stitch" side tanks and decks ought to be a lot more comfortable to sail on, but OTOH I have such bad memories of buoyancy bags... |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Apr 14 at 5:02pm
|
Cat? Cat? who said anything about Cats..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I7-ckYtV9U" rel="nofollow - Inflatable Pussy?) ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Apr 14 at 5:07pm
I did originally try to spec exactly that when asking for the V2 to be built rather than racks, but it wasn't within the gift of those guys to build. I've never visited a 'drop stitch' factory so have no idea what shaping possibilities they have other than flat board shapes and maybe the odd kayak. The problem these big volume devices like the Cat, Ribs, and Kayaks have is the (lack of) ability to inflate to high pressure, which the combination of the stitches and new valves is bringing. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: iitick
Date Posted: 22 Apr 14 at 5:09pm
| Just don't you go pumping too much air in. It will get heavier! |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Apr 14 at 8:09pm
 ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: andy101
Date Posted: 23 Apr 14 at 3:12pm
| What I have never understood is what the attraction is in SUP? Surfing and canoeing I get but not this one. |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 23 Apr 14 at 7:57pm
|
The Bombard AeroTec Inflatable has been using this tech for at least 15 years in it's floor. Mine is that old. Your thinking is floored if you think it would be a lighter dinghy construction method. You are a stitching together a skin of heavy rubberised cloth then adding the weight of the drop stitched threads. With no appreciable weigh saving. Adding heavy metal values as well as adding the requirement to strengthen specific sites to terminate spars and fittings with self supporting structures which will be heavier than conventional methods. Easy of storage is the only relevant design concept behind small inflatables, other than the inherent safety they deliver when applied to RIBS.
If you want to make a lighter boat. Build it out of single skin Pre-Preg Nomex, Autoclave it and be done with it. ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: Dougal
Date Posted: 24 Apr 14 at 9:02am
|
What pressure are the SUP's (an other inflatable devices) inflated to, and is this done off a hand pump? ------------- What could possibly go wrong? |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 24 Apr 14 at 9:38am
Weight saving vs high tech, sure no contest. But what about weight saving vs thermoplastic rotomould? That construction doesn't seem to scale well weight wise into the 15, 16ft size range. Might there be any potential there? |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 24 Apr 14 at 9:50am
|
Don't ask me to sell you SUP it's the most pointless exercise I've come across to date except maybe in poor Surf conditions and there is no grass to watch growing.
As to the USP of the inflatable tech, it's purely storage, price and convenience rather than weight, personally given a choice of a boat made of this stuff or roto/blow moulded polyethylene I'd take the blow up anytime. They'll be coming I'm sure of that with the volume production of SUP bringing the price down, the first generation has already spawned stuff like http://www.tiwal.com" rel="nofollow - This so there are bound to be more, the question is how sophisticated rather than beach fodder they become. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 24 Apr 14 at 10:15am
|
So far, the price seems to be higher by a factor of at least 2 over what I'd expect for a blow up boat. A long way to go on this, I think.
------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 24 Apr 14 at 10:38am
light wind wave sailing is the big one, no wind and a little swell you paddle, light wind and a little swell you rig up.... if I lived near some swell I'd probably get one, but I'm not going to drive 3 hours on a forecast which predicts using one. I guess harbour/inland cruising in sub-planing conditions is the other one.... for windsurfers who are yet to discover that windsurfing really does have a minimum wind threshold of around 12 knots without some very specialist kit. Can I see a benefit in an inflatable version- well yes. Given the choice between a longboard on the deck, or an inflatable SUP in an aft locker, I'd pick the inflatable SUP these days, so oddly enough, for Boat Owners, they make an interesting proposition for marinas and anchorage toys. As for inflatable sailboats.... no thanks, not for me.
------------- |
Posted By: Chris 249
Date Posted: 24 Apr 14 at 11:02am
I still have yet to discover a 12 knot minimum wind in windsurfing, without very specialist kit. Mind you, it's only been 36 years since I started so maybe I'm not experienced enough yet.  |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 24 Apr 14 at 12:22pm
|
anything over 250cm is 'specialist kit' these days imho...
------------- |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 25 Apr 14 at 1:42pm
|
You see, specialist kit.... for schmoozing the ladies, Tony Elbow style. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1r1rj4_pnj-cam-antoine-albeau-windsurf_sport" rel="nofollow - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1r1rj4_pnj-cam-antoine-albeau-windsurf_sport ------------- |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 25 Apr 14 at 4:44pm
| the next step in dinghy design is, IMO, most keenly needed from the deck up, i.e. the rig and sail/foil area, this will then drive the next gen of hull and make the most of what is already known regarding foils |