Repair & maintenance: RS200 kite holes

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RS200 kite holes

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Repair & maintenance
Forum Discription: Questions & tips on the subject
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11328
Printed Date: 14 May 25 at 1:30am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com

Topic: RS200 kite holes

Posted By: piglet
Subject: RS200 kite holes
Date Posted: 28 Jan 14 at 5:20pm

Had a good search and couldn't find any discussion on this, so:

Our 200 kite is like a tramps sock between the lower downhaul patch and the aft end of the foot.

Conventional wisdom seems to be it's caused by the downhaul causing friction on the drop,

and conventional widom again is that tapering the last few metres of the downhaul reduces said friction and reduces holes.

Is there more to it than this? Does it also relate to technique? Is there another fix?

I am not a fan of the the tapered downhaul idea as I can see all that Dyneema core swimming round in the bottom of the boat causing problems of it's own.

Advice please, we are wanting to order new kite.

Replies:

Posted By: GybeFunny
Date Posted: 29 Jan 14 at 2:25pm

Is it a single or twin patched kite?

Do you tape up the shackles at the bottom and top of the jib?

Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 29 Jan 14 at 3:42pm

Twin patch, yes we tape bottom shackle and lower patch doesn't get anywhere near top shackle.

Posted By: GybeFunny
Date Posted: 29 Jan 14 at 3:48pm

Is there any rough bits or lumps in the chute moulding or on the foredeck where the kite lies when it is down?

Also are the screws exposed at the front end of the grab rails as they may be able to catch the kite when it is in the sock?

What about the nut under the bow eye bolt, is that smooth?

What about where the sock is screwed onto the chute moulding or where the chute moulding meets the foredeck, there must be something sharp there that is causing the holes.....

I sailed 200s for 8 years and I find this 'downhaul causing friction on the drop' idea as a load of tosh.

Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 29 Jan 14 at 4:17pm

Originally posted by GybeFunny

I sailed 200s for 8 years and I find this 'downhaul causing friction on the drop' idea as a load of tosh.

I'm glad you say that.

I will have a good look on sunday and see what parts of the boat that area of the sail can come into contact with. I know the chute mouth came with some rope wear grooves which we may be adding to.

I still think technique may have a part to play, if the sail is being dragged down as opposed to floating down then things might rub.

Thanks

Posted By: jaydub
Date Posted: 29 Jan 14 at 4:28pm

I'm convinced 200 spinni holes are caused by the kite getting caught between the downhaul and the chute mouth.

Filling any ruts in the chute mouth will help as will sparing it with some prolube.

If my theory is right, using a tapered downhaul may make matters worse rather than better.

Having said all that, I have very few holes in any of my 200 spinnakers.

Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 29 Jan 14 at 4:49pm

Thanks Jaydub,

Is your downhaul tapered?

Any thoughts on drop technique?

Posted By: jaydub
Date Posted: 29 Jan 14 at 8:55pm

No it isn't.

We tend to just uncleat the halyard and pull the downhaul in fast unless it's absolutely honking.

The 200 kite is small enough that it isn't as critical to tension the downhaul before uncleating as it is in larger assy boats.

Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 30 Jan 14 at 9:30am

We are taking in the slack 1st,,,,,mmmmm

Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 30 Jan 14 at 10:27am

http://www.protect-tapes.com/products/chafe This stuff is your friend!

Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 30 Jan 14 at 10:38am

I've taped up the chute mouth with loads of duck tape, I just replace it every month or so and that does the job. I've still got the cherub sailor in my obviously....

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Needs to sail more...

Posted By: Ruscoe
Date Posted: 30 Jan 14 at 10:49am

How old is the kite?

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Posted By: Presuming Ed
Date Posted: 30 Jan 14 at 11:21am

Mmmmmmmmm. Millionaire tape.

Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 30 Jan 14 at 3:19pm

Originally posted by Presuming Ed

Mmmmmmmmm. Millionaire tape.

Much cheaper than a new kite every few weeks!

Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 01 Feb 14 at 4:17pm

Sorry Ruscoe,
not sure on the age of the kite, it came with the boat, but it is at the end of it's serviceable racing life.
Going to have a good investigation tomorrow.

That PE tape looks flash but I can't see it forming round the complex curve of a chute mouth.

Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 03 Feb 14 at 3:15pm

Right, had a thorough investigation in the dinghy park yesterday and it is obvious that the holes are a result of rope friction during dropping, some cloth enters the chute with the rope and the cloth stays still while the rope runs over it.

There is 1 main rope groove in the chute which I'm guessing is not helping as once the rope drops into the groove it tends to stay there with that bit of sailcloth.

There is no excessive friction in the system, most of it from the Spinlock, the rope is almost new and smooth.

Another 200 sailor said there have been changes to the sailcloth along the way which has exacerbated the problem, not sure about that one.

Posted By: jaydub
Date Posted: 03 Feb 14 at 5:25pm

Having checked my spinnakers, it's only the oldest ones that have had problems. Fill in the groove and keeping the chute mouth lubed with some prolube will help.

Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 06 Feb 14 at 6:02pm

Protect tape comes in various thicknesses so you can form it to some pretty complex shapes. Sounds like you have found your problem so once repaired cover this with some sacrificial tape as suggested and replace it when needed. Reminds me, I must replace the stuff on my 200 in time for this season!

Posted By: Ruscoe
Date Posted: 06 Feb 14 at 7:25pm

Originally posted by jaydub

Having checked my spinnakers, it's only the oldest ones that have had problems. Fill in the groove and keeping the chute mouth lubed with some prolube will help.

That's my point as well, it always seems to be old kites that suffer worse of all. Older softer, thinner material snags.

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Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 07 Feb 14 at 9:44am

Laser, are you buying that PE tape? Where from? Thickness width etc.?

Makes sense about age of sail, we badly need a new one, but I want this problem under control 1st

Maybe I should stick it all over the sail!

Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 07 Feb 14 at 9:53am

That's the stuff I think. Although I have never bought it myself. Just used offcuts from various other boats I have raced on. That 15 quid bit should be enough to last you the whole season. It only needs to go around the top where the chute is getting damaged.

Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 07 Feb 14 at 9:58am

http://www.apsltd.com/c-4491-low-frictiontapes.aspx Some good alternatives here too. If you can find a supplier in the UK of course!

Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 07 Feb 14 at 3:26pm

mmmmmm, rare as hens teeth in UK, and damned expensive:

http://www.vikingtapes.co.uk/p-1071-vktes25-uhmw-slick-surface-tape-50mm-x-33m-x-0305mm-thick.aspx" rel="nofollow - http://www.vikingtapes.co.uk/p-1071-vktes25-uhmw-slick-surface-tape-50mm-x-33m-x-0305mm-thick.aspx

I wonder if it's even class legal?

I bought this from Poland, cost me £5.68 delivered for 1m

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251434723992#ht_929wt_958" rel="nofollow - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251434723992#ht_929wt_958

it's probably parcel tape! if it arrives at all.

As a short term I might try some mould release wax on the chute mouth.

I'm not going to try and repair the rope grooves in a freezing wet dinghy park, that will have to wait.

Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 07 Feb 14 at 6:06pm

A couple of layers of that tape can only help... if it will stick to itself!?

Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 14 Feb 14 at 2:18pm

Polish UHMW(?) tape arrived a week to the day after ordered.

It is clear and mics up at around 0.28mm, feels similar in stiffness to slot strip or milk bottle plastic.

Not overly impressed with the stickiness so have done a small test piece on a piece of curvy shiny gelcoat, using some cheap contact adhesive as a primer. I'll leave it till monday then try and rip it off.

A piece of stiff tape peeling away in the chute mouth would most likely do more damage to the sail than it is intended to prevent!