Dinghy development: Moth 'Racing'

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Moth 'Racing'

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11142
Printed Date: 10 May 25 at 4:22am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com

Topic: Moth 'Racing'

Posted By: 2547
Subject: Moth 'Racing'
Date Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 10:22am

... despite leaving the start line nearly 3 minutes late. "I was a bit confused about the course signals and ended up very late for the start," said Greenhalgh, who at one point was nearly a half leg ahead of the next competitor even after giving the fleet a head start.

Can you think of any dinghy racing where you could start 3 minutes late and end up 1/2 leg in front in a worlds race?

Moth Racing seems to have little resemblance to any other form of dinghy racing ....

Looks like the event is having a nightmare with the weather ... the pre-worlds was a light wind low riding effort...

Replies:

Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 10:44am

Just shows the difference between foiling and non-foiling, doesn't it? The skill set can't be too dissimilar, though, as the top names seem to have been top in other classes too.

Really hoping the wind picks up and we can look on with awe.

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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686

Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 10:49am

Originally posted by Rupert

Just shows the difference between foiling and non-foiling, doesn't it?

yes of course ... and in what other class could you see such enormous differences?

The differences also mean that tacks are heavily penalised ... less so gybes.

I'm just observing how different foiling racing is from "normal" dinghies ....

Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 11:17am

I've seen things like that happen in other classes when something bizarre happens to the weather. Surely anyone who's done a lot of inland sailing has seen the situation where the entire front of the fleet gets enveloped by a huge hole in the wind and someone at the back sails right round them. I honestly don't think its that special to the Moths, though it does exaggerate things.

Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 11:58am

Originally posted by JimC

I've seen things like that happen in other classes when something bizarre happens to the weather. Surely anyone who's done a lot of inland sailing has seen the situation where the entire front of the fleet gets enveloped by a huge hole in the wind and someone at the back sails right round them. I honestly don't think its that special to the Moths, though it does exaggerate things.

Have been on both sides of that Jim! Nice when you are on the right side, frustrating when you are on the wrong side.

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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74

Posted By: yellowwelly
Date Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 12:05pm

It's a bit like watching the AC72s isn't it? Very easy to say it's not the same as what we do on a sh*tty pond in the middle of nowhere. That much is obvious. It's also very easy to somehow discredit it, make it seem a bit 'cowboy' or technique led.

We could further claim to de-skill it- from a tactical point of view anyway, slow is more tactical right? But as shown in the AC, it's not without tactics and not without similarities to what we do. I'm sure I'm not the only one who heard SB call the lay line longer than the wrist top gadget... and he was right.

Foiling is a new breed of sailing, sharing some similar traits, but vastly different too. But we shouldn't really try and compare it too much, there's no point. Anyone claiming superiority of one form or another is simply giving an opinion- the same way you can't really compare F1 to WRC. But unlike motorsports, we have yet to accept that the two can't compete together. It's becoming fairly clear that we can't race PY for foilers, not against conventional craft... forget it.

Posted By: L123456
Date Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 1:10pm

Originally posted by yellowwelly

It's becoming fairly clear that we can't race PY for foilers, not against conventional craft... forget it.

That's for sure ...

Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 1:30pm

Dublin Bay evening racing in the summer as the sea breeze dies... starting late can be a positive advantage.

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Gordon

Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 4:36pm

if you've never seen a late starter sail round the entire fleet, you've not raced enough

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-_
Al

Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 9:36pm

Originally posted by 2547

Moth Racing seems to have little resemblance to any other form of dinghy racing ....

I think that Moth racing today is very similar to a great many periods in development classes throughout the last 50 years in these waters. Occasionally a combination of sailors, design and conditions conspire to deliver what, to the rest of us more used to OD or SMOD sailing (or club handicrap), appear "weird" or "crazy" results.

For me, it's one of the great attractions but also downsides of development class racing. You can buy the 'best design' with the 'best sails' and practice yourselves into great shape, only to find some crew turn out with a taped together boat and borrowed sails, measure in and disappear over yours, and everyone else's, horizon!

There is always a greater chance at a major event that someone will win with the currently accepted 'best package', but that small chance of a dead-cat-bounce/flat-stanley/cantebury-tales coming along peeks my interest at least.

Perhaps, tying into other threads, it's why the likes of Nick Craig have stuck to OD and SMOD racing, while others like Rod Gilbert, Mike Carveth and Ian Pinnell have done both (i14 & Merlin vs Enterprise and RS400 for example).

Posted By: aardvark_issues
Date Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 9:38pm

Light airs shifty 'racing' always shows up a lot of people. I've sailed past the fast handicap fleet in a slow boat when they started 5 minutes earlier just because they don't know how to get moving or where to be going. It's very easy to make up time on boats when you've got your head out of the boat and know what you are looking for.

As for this 'event' (yeah, lets add some condescending punctuation). It's just damn unlucky and if you think the 'racing' would be much better in any other class in gusty, shifty, holey conditions then you are on another planet. They have yet to actually get a 'race' in anyway as there is that little wind...

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http://www.aardvarkracing.co.uk" rel="nofollow - Home of Rocket Racing

Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 10:15pm

I'm guessing it's a classic "it isn't normally like this here at this time of year" situation with the wind? One presumes they picked the time/location on a virtual guarantee of compliant weather...

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-_
Al

Posted By: dohertpk
Date Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 10:29pm

yup!!!!

Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 10:52pm

Originally posted by aardvark_issues

Light airs shifty 'racing' always shows up a lot of people. I've sailed past the fast handicap fleet in a slow boat when they started 5 minutes earlier just because they don't know how to get moving or where to be going. It's very easy to make up time on boats when you've got your head out of the boat and know what you are looking for..

This

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Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 11:33pm

The way I read the report they are getting around 8 knots....not really that light is it. RS classes have a minimum of 5knots.

In those conditions would it be faster without foiling foils?

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Musto Skiff and Solo sailor

Posted By: aardvark_issues
Date Posted: 16 Oct 13 at 8:08am

They are getting puffs of eight knots, but its not sitting there very long. Moths will foil in 7/8 quite easily and we've got a lower wind limit of 5 or 6. Lowriders might be OK as long as it stays at 5 or 6 but one puff and a foiler can pop 100's of yards in a couple of minutes.

Thankfully it looks like they got three full races in today.

Originally posted by Neptune

The way I read the report they are getting around 8 knots....not really that light is it. RS classes have a minimum of 5knots.

In those conditions would it be faster without foiling foils?

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http://www.aardvarkracing.co.uk" rel="nofollow - Home of Rocket Racing

Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 16 Oct 13 at 2:28pm

Ahh ok, 8 knot puff is something else. I bet 5 knots is really uncomfortable and bloody hard work keeping it upright.

Could be worse places than Hawaii to have to sit around waiting for wind :-)

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Musto Skiff and Solo sailor

Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 17 Oct 13 at 11:28am

I guess my original point was is there any other class where such huge differential boat speeds?

We have all seen fluky conditions turn races inside-out but not due to boat speed.

Anyway ... looks like things have picked up and they weather is playing ball.