What boat should I buy?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11043
Printed Date: 14 Jul 25 at 5:49pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: What boat should I buy?
Posted By: Bill Peters
Subject: What boat should I buy?
Date Posted: 23 Aug 13 at 12:54am
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Hi, I am after a bit of advice.I use to sail a Fireball about 25
years ago ,got married ,stopped sailing as you do ,had kids and worked. I now don't have to work as much and have spare time.I would like to buy a boat that i could sail with the kids or maybe by myself.I was considering a moth but felt they are too expensive and difficult for me to sail given my weight 91Kg to sail. Have been following all the hype recently about someone being able to foil a Laser which looks unbelievable and doubt that is possible for myself let alone the kids. I want something that is versatile not too expensive and will not be boring like a Heron, and at least as exciting to sail as a Fireball . What do you recommend? |
Replies:
Posted By: ben_a
Date Posted: 23 Aug 13 at 7:44am
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If your focus is sailing by yourself / single hander (as indicated by moth / laser comments) then an RS300 would meet most of your requirements. Fun, much faster and more responsive than most other single sail options (moth/IC excluded). Simple and quick to get set up. Take a look at the 'choosing a boat' forum for some discussion on it. Edited to Add - but as per comments below there isn't much room for the kids - if you want a 2 man that could be single handed then N12, RS200 might be options.
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Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 23 Aug 13 at 8:16am
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we get this request a lot. "I want something to sail by myself but with the kids sometimes plus it must be fast." It's akin to saying "I want a two seater sports car but sometimes need to take the wife and kids shopping" Unfortunately, until the manufacturers come up with an amazing extendable boat - like being able to put an extra plank in a table meant for two - such a boat doesn't really exist. You will always have to settle for a miserable compromise - like buying a Ford Focus Sports Edition when you really wanted a Lotus.... That's not helpful I know, but the reality is that what you're looking for doesn't exist: you need to weigh up your needs and see what comes out on top - or buy two boats. ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: GarethT
Date Posted: 23 Aug 13 at 8:26am
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How old/big are your kids? If they're not too big, a 420 could give you a real blast when the wind blows (but not so great when it's light). The Laser 2000 is great compromise boat, but in terms of excitement it's no Fireball.
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 23 Aug 13 at 8:47am
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They tell me the RS500 is sort of a modern fireball equivalent but it wouldn't be brilliant to sail single handed, the other fast light exciting single trap boat is the V3000, one of our guys sails his single handed, he rigged it a bit differently, but he has had a degree of success. I kind of got into sailing using an L3000 with my daughter it performs quite well with light crews providing there's a bit of wind.
I don't think, other than going back and forward in quite strong breeze, that the Laser will foil particularly well with it's current sail which will deform once asked to do anything other than go off beam reaching. Other than that, big single handers that you could take passengers? Phantom, Blaze would be my choice. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: gbr940
Date Posted: 23 Aug 13 at 8:49am
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I can't believe i'm actually about to say this and a little bit of sick might have just gone in my mouth (much like muttering a rival premiership rugby team who's ACTUALLY better then you) - but a Dart 18 would probably tick all the boxes you might be after - did I just say that? Very cheap to buy, cheap to run, designed for being sailed single handed and then add crew, loads of spares. Right - i'm off to go have a word with myself! ------------- RS400 GBR1321 |
Posted By: Contender443
Date Posted: 23 Aug 13 at 8:57am
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Depends if the kids want to sail regularily and also do something on the boat. If not then try a Contender as it fits the box on performance and has plenty of space to take the kids out once in a while. ------------- Bonnie Lass Contender 1764 |
Posted By: yellowwelly
Date Posted: 23 Aug 13 at 9:19am
no need to be sick - a cat is the only option that is: a) easy b) versatile c) cheap d) go quick e) easy to launch from a beach there is no monohull that would do it as well. The closest is probably the Laser Vago, which is what I recommended to a friend recently when he gave me a similar brief. ------------- |
Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 23 Aug 13 at 9:31am
Who are the they in this? A rs500 is a long was short of a Fireball. There is no craft that meets this brief as winging it points out. After a 25 year break I'd advise against a Moth. Join your local club and see what they have. At your weight perhaps a phantom, you could fit a small child up front for a joy ride.
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Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 23 Aug 13 at 9:33am
Apart from the fact that it weighs a ton and a father child partnership would never be able to pull it up the shingle/sand ....
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Posted By: ajbaldwin
Date Posted: 23 Aug 13 at 9:42am
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HMMM what about the Laser Vago at your weight can be sailed single handed with or without trapeze, Big enough to take a crew, and as it has a jib and kite plus crew trap option will give them plenty to do and not just sit there ------------- Yorkshire Dales SC Vareo 505 |
Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 23 Aug 13 at 10:05am
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I was in exactly this situation a few years ago. My heart said buy a 5o and join Hayling. My head said buy something sensible & join Frensham. My head won. I spent the first 3 months swimming around and righting my Lark, then the next 12 odd chasing the pack. The feeling when I first didn't finish last was wonderful! Are you sure your kids are really interested? I put mine thru RYA 1&2 but the bug didn't bite :-( After a few years of sailing on the pond I decided waves were the way to go - hence the Fireball now. One of our 'larger' members has single-handed his, but he is quite big and a seriously good sailor. I wouldn't try it. Which boat will best suit is affected by a multitude of factors - not least location and lunch / recovery facilities. You don't really want to be hauling something heavy up a steep slip or across shingle. ------------- Nick D-Zero 316 |
Posted By: i tick
Date Posted: 23 Aug 13 at 10:28am
| Just buy 2 cheap ones. |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 23 Aug 13 at 11:18am
Sounds good doesn't it. But it's probably fair to say that a cheap boat requires more money and time spent on maintenance than a newer one, so two cheap boats? Keep your eyes open with that option. (says the bloke with 4 boats, each of which *originally* cost under £1,000). |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 23 Aug 13 at 11:23am
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Right I'm going to suggest something very left field.
Scandinavian Cruiser 20 %20" rel="nofollow - http://www.scandinaviancruisers.com/Yachts/The-Scandinavian-Cruiser-20.html 
A fast lightweight singlehanded lifting keel boat with a trapeze. I'm guessing you are a man who likes the finer things in life and this might be the ticket. Loads of flexability without getting wet. So great for the kids and you. The other boat I'd suggest is the WETA. Perfect for your situation, very fast and a very different type of boat to the SC20. It depends what you like from life. http://www.wetamarine.com/" rel="nofollow - LINK  ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: Telltale
Date Posted: 23 Aug 13 at 11:34am
| SC 20 is a lovely boat with a sort of code 0 furling spinnaker but £15,000 might be out of budget !! |
Posted By: GybeFunny
Date Posted: 23 Aug 13 at 12:41pm
| Do you plan on racing? If so go to your club of choice and see what they sail there... |
Posted By: stewart smith
Date Posted: 23 Aug 13 at 4:44pm
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Spitfire: It ticks all the boxes and with the big wheel trolley it easy to launch.
------------- Stewart Smith |
Posted By: Hector
Date Posted: 23 Aug 13 at 5:31pm
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A picture (or two) paints a thousand words. Vortex - faster than a Fireball, loads of room for passengers. Singlehander, trapeze, fits in the same dinghy park space as a Laser, allowed at most dinghy only clubs and all major dinghy only events, very inexpensive secondhand, sail it with or without Kite. New builds available very soon.    ------------- Keith 29er 661 (with my daughters / nephew) 49er 688 (with Phil P) RS200 968 Vortex (occasionally) Laser 2049XX |
Posted By: rb_stretch
Date Posted: 23 Aug 13 at 7:25pm
| I've taken my wife out in my Phantom and there was a surprising amount of space for both of us...just another option. |
Posted By: NickA
Date Posted: 23 Aug 13 at 10:05pm
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Phantom if you want to hike. Vortex or V3000 if you want to trapeze. Trouble with the phant and vortex is that there is nothing for the kids to do and they'll soon be bored, though I guess they could do the kite on a Vortex asymetric. Trouble with the 3000 is that there is no race circuit (or official PY) for single handing it when the kids inevitably get bored. In a similar position, I went V3000; sailed club and national circuit for a few years before they lost interest and now single hand it at my own club. A Cat (or weta tri) would probably be the real solution .... but it does depend on whether or not you like cats. .. and for some reason I can't quite put a finger on, I just like monohulls. ------------- Javelin 558 Contender 2574 |
Posted By: Bill Peters
Date Posted: 24 Aug 13 at 3:25am
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All I really appreciate all the feedback you have given me and from this here is some more information. I don't necessarily want to sail with my children who are 2boys 29y 27y 2girls married 31y 33y with 2 grand kids each5y 7y old. I would like to take the grand kids out separately just lake sailing for them to experience that relaxed feeling of one with nature.I know some skippers yell at there crew and turn them of the sport for life.That is why I am wanting a boat I can sail by myself if the need arises. As an older sailor I would also like to travel and do Masters events with large fleets and enjoy competitive competition and maybe a glass of red. Finally if my older children want to go sailing they can just borrow the boat and use it when they like without their father telling them what to do. Hope this extra info helps. |
Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 24 Aug 13 at 8:42am
| Bill I think given the extra info you need a Laser. |
Posted By: yellowwelly
Date Posted: 24 Aug 13 at 8:56am
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Yep- I'd agree. ------------- |
Posted By: phil wright
Date Posted: 24 Aug 13 at 10:08am
| The Vareo was designed with this in mind. |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 24 Aug 13 at 12:12pm
You have an IQ greater than 50? ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: stewart smith
Date Posted: 27 Aug 13 at 8:51am
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An IQ slightly greater than 50. That explains way you only like halfboats. ------------- Stewart Smith |
Posted By: MattHarris
Date Posted: 27 Aug 13 at 9:19am
I don't think it was? The Vareo takes a lot of hiking to get it upwind fast in any wind meaning that older helms who can't flat hike etc tend to get left behind. Don't get me wrong its a cracking boat and if i could afford one I'd buy one - I would just hate someone to buy one wanting big fleets and a masters circuit only to be disappointed. ------------- Phantom 1175 - Alice http://www.thelostpenguin.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.thelostpenguin.co.uk |
Posted By: Bill Peters
Date Posted: 27 Aug 13 at 12:37pm
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All Thanks for all your advice,I have contacted the distributor of the Laser in Australia and they will have the glide free foils available in australia in about 3 months.For my family I am planning to buy 2 old Lasers before the price goes up for them to use and a good second hand boat to club race for me. I have given them my details so i can be one of the first in the UK to get a set and will put them on and old laser first just in case I run into something at speed. I also heard about another class they have down-under called the Northbridge senior or NS14 it is a 2 man boat but can also be sailed 1 up.do we have them here or something similar?here are some links.any thoughts http://www.ns14.org/ http://www.glidefree.com.au" rel="nofollow - www.glidefree.com.au http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxb6BRe7Weo&feature=youtu.be" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxb6BRe7Weo&feature=youtu.behttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E14OnOQ62eM" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E14OnOQ62eM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI214hSdfJQ" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI214hSdfJQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdZ7iVkD7rs" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdZ7iVkD7rs
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Posted By: yellowwelly
Date Posted: 27 Aug 13 at 12:45pm
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If you want an NS14, buy the UK alternative - it's called the iCon. There's lots of info on here currently about it, mainly positive and it does look a nice, simple, efficient two person boat. Although we heard 140kg was a bit underweight in a breeze in a recent report, this puts a bit of a different spin on it for those of us who might have considered it for versatility of one or two up with a kid. ------------- |
Posted By: blaze720
Date Posted: 27 Aug 13 at 1:29pm
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Icon is clearly an NS derivative and has a strong racing heritage ... as was the Tasar several decades ago. It is very versatile, easier to sail and frankly we do not understand the issue about being 'over-powered' being plugged second-hand by some here yet to sail one or even see one on the water perhaps. ... Every boat has a limit somewhere on the wind range !! Over the weekend Mike and Charlotte Bell who commented previously (and are now at Poole Week) seem to have really got things sorted in higher breeze over the holiday weekend - simply time on the water again, a bit of guidance and a lot more Cunningham. To put things into perspective the Tasar has a MINIMUM allowed crew weight rule of 130kg. Would I sail Icon with kids ? Yes. It is fast YET stable and everyone who has sailed them has commented how forgiving the boat is .... But there are also conditons I would not take out inexperienced in almost any boat .. and some in which I'd single-hand the boat if I had no alternative. Maybe not what would suit here (not yet anyway) and I'd recommend something low cost moderate and simple to gain more experience. Enterprise, Firefly, Wayfarer or maybe a Miracle, ... choose when you go out and try out anything along the way that is offered. If it is too breezy don't frighten the kids etc, stay ashore or find a smaller mainsail and still go out to get a feel for higher wind sailing without too much swimming. I'd avoid anything rota-moulded on the grounds of weight and 'non-slip' issues but that may just be my own personal bias ! Mike L. |
Posted By: Sprint Bob
Date Posted: 28 Aug 13 at 12:28am
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[QUOTE=Bill Peters]All I really appreciate all the feedback you have given me and from this here is some more information. I don't necessarily want to sail with my children who are 2boys 29y 27y 2girls married 31y 33y with 2 grand kids each5y 7y old. I would like to take the grand kids out separately just lake sailing for them to experience that relaxed feeling of one with nature.I know some skippers yell at there crew and turn them of the sport for life.That is why I am wanting a boat I can sail by myself if the need arises. As an older sailor I would also like to travel and do Masters events with large fleets and enjoy competitive competition and maybe a glass of red. Finally if my older children want to go sailing they can just borrow the boat and use it when they like without their father telling them what to do. Hope this extra info helps. [/QUOTE Hi Have a look at www.sprint15.com The sprint 15 can be sailed single handed Unarig but you can add the jib and then it can also be sailed and raced 2-up. It is ideal for you and grand child but not for you AND your children as they are too big and heavy. Many of the sailors are in the 50+ age range and tend to drink red wine. Our national champion is 60+ The fleet is well known for being friendly and helpful as can be seen from our website. We have just completed our National Championships at Pentewan where we had 70 entries. We are now starting our fun sailing few days where we load up our boats with family and friends and cruise along the coastline to pubs for lunch, etc. So in summary you can sail AND raced 1-up or 2-up, It is light and easily to launch and right from a capsize, The class's is active and friendly, Fun sailing events are organised as well as racing, There is a full summer traveller series of 2 day regattas and winter series of 5 x 1 day regattas,as well as 2 national championships. Cheers Bob, Ps I was only prompted to write this as most of the recommendations made thus far do not meet your criteria of being suitable for BOTH singlehanded and 2-up sailing.
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Posted By: Pewit
Date Posted: 26 Jan 14 at 1:11am
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+1 for the Weta. I was in a similar position wanting a boat with some performance but not wanting to spend all my time swimming. So instead of a single handed skiff - I went for a skiff with training wheels :-) Fantastic performance when you're on your own. Very stable if you're out with kids or 3 up. Can be launched/retrieved single handed in 30 mins Small footprint in the boat park/garage (6 sqM - same as a Laser) I also think you'd soon get tired of the foiling Laser idea - great gimmick but not very practical. By all means buy a second-hand Laser if you want big fleet racing but I bet you'll spend more time on the Weta. |