Allen Laser XD Kicker?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11012
Printed Date: 16 Jul 25 at 6:05am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Allen Laser XD Kicker?
Posted By: dohertpk
Subject: Allen Laser XD Kicker?
Date Posted: 01 Aug 13 at 10:28pm
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Hey, Has anyone got any experience of the Allen Laser XD Kicker? I've got a line on a second-hand one and I'd appreciate any accounts of your feelings on them, positive or negative. Cheers, Peter
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Replies:
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 02 Aug 13 at 7:04am
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I find the Allen (or Holt) version is servicable and does the job but it is not a patch on the Harken version. In my opinion the Harken is worth every penny extra. The reason is that the Holt does not seem to flow as freely as the Harken, is prone to twisting and prone to uncleating itself at inopportune moments. Both are a massive improvement on the previous iteration of kicker though. Just my opinion.... ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: GarethT
Date Posted: 02 Aug 13 at 8:06am
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Not had a problem with my Allen one, although my son's Harken is better. You just need to get past the fact that it will always look twisted, even when it isn't!
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Posted By: Fraggle
Date Posted: 02 Aug 13 at 12:52pm
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Personally would always find the extra for the Harken. Its just soo much better. Allen always has friction in the lines whereas the Harken just works perfectly. ------------- |
Posted By: Nihil
Date Posted: 02 Aug 13 at 12:58pm
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I'd totally agree with Fragster, I went from sailing knackered school boats with old style control lines to one with full Harken XD kit and my god does it make it a different animal. I had a go in a mate's boat with the Allen kicker recently and it's just fiddly, sticky and twisty by comparison. Harken every time, for everything tbh. There is a good reason it's more expensive. ------------- Laser 197679 |
Posted By: dohertpk
Date Posted: 02 Aug 13 at 8:55pm
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Dear all, Thanks a mil for the feedback. I think I'll hold out and save for the Harken so. Two questions, is upgrading to the XD kicker as transformative as everyone says it is, and, does anyone have a Harken example they're looking to sell? Thanks again! Peter
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Posted By: Xpletive
Date Posted: 02 Aug 13 at 11:28pm
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I'm puzzled as to why these two expensive systems are thought to be so much better than the original system adapted with the addition of Ronstan blocks:- http://www.roostersailing.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=1&Product_Code=1767" rel="nofollow - http://www.roostersailing.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=1&Product_Code=1767 This system is perfectly reliable & controllable with very little effort. There is also no excessive rope length involved. I've used these ever since the blocks were permitted and cannot imagine what advantage could be gained from either of these other two pricey items, which I understand may have a tendency to snag the daggerboard elastic. |
Posted By: deadrock
Date Posted: 02 Aug 13 at 11:54pm
| Xpletive: borrow one and find out . . . |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 03 Aug 13 at 7:32am
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First time I used one, I was amazed - for a small person, it made the boat useable.
------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: PeterG
Date Posted: 03 Aug 13 at 9:46am
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Xpletive: borrow one and find out . . .
I used to use one like the Rooster upgrade, it was a home brew, but essentially the same. They are a revelation compared to the original Laser kicker. Sure the Ronstan is nicer to use, and I've used one for years now, but they aren't cheap and I'd reckon you get 80-90% of the benefit going for upgrading the basic kicker with some small blocks for a fraction of the cost. ------------- Peter Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59 |
Posted By: Xpletive
Date Posted: 03 Aug 13 at 4:10pm
Bit confused there, Peter G. When you refer to 'Ronstan' in line 2, do you mean Harken (or Allen)? |
Posted By: PeterG
Date Posted: 03 Aug 13 at 4:39pm
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Well spotted, I meant Harken. I've never used an Allen one. ------------- Peter Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59 |
Posted By: deadrock
Date Posted: 03 Aug 13 at 5:01pm
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The unique benefit from using the Harken vang is that you can adjust (and with a 15:1 setup, micro-adjust) the vang offwind, even when you're hiked out. The Ronstan 'builder-supplied' vang also allows this, but the bottom swivel tends to self-centre. The Harken bottom-swivel stays where it's put, so if you've adjusted it from the windward side, the control stays where you left it. The Ronstan one doesn't. As to longevity, I bought my first Harken vang in 2002 and it's still going on the boat I sold it with. The other one's nearly new, though at least five years old!
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Posted By: Xpletive
Date Posted: 03 Aug 13 at 10:08pm
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Deadrock, I think you may be confused about the 'labelling' of these systems. There isn't a 'Ronstan' system. There is the original system, and then there is the original system adapted to use blocks instead of rope loop purchases, which in the case of the one I use, supplied by Rooster, uses Ronstan blocks together with the original Laser spec top and bottom blocks. They could, though, be blocks from any manufacturer you wish. And then there are the elaborate, expensive offerings from Harken and Allen......... |
Posted By: dohertpk
Date Posted: 03 Aug 13 at 11:45pm
| I had a go of a Harken kicker today (in a 45 knot squall too). It's a totally different ball game. I'm sold. |
Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 04 Aug 13 at 7:45am
45 knot squall, are you sure it wasn't more? See forum wind table ...
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Posted By: deadrock
Date Posted: 04 Aug 13 at 8:48am
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Doh! Senior moment, making the same error as the earlier poster, mis-naming the (ex-Holt-Allen) Allen 'builder-supplied' post-2000 system as a Ronstan system. You're right: there are (and have only ever been since about 2000) two class-legal 'builder-supplied' alternative vang systems. The Rooster solution you describe was designed to meet the needs of the 'Activate Your Laser' programme, the heart of which was to get old Lasers and impecunious young sailors on the water and, hopefully, racing. One aspect of the programme was to design class-legal ways of using low-cost equipment such as the original Laser vang-blocks to improve on the original rope-and-eye-only systems. Steve's system was his answer to building such a low-cost vang system, and it's a vast improvement on the original. And it's entirely class-legal. However, it is nowhere near as effective as either of the other two systems. For a start, you cannot effectively adjust the vang offwind except in the lightest conditions, and if you can't while everyone else can, you're toast.
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