Mind the gap
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11002
Printed Date: 16 Jul 25 at 11:46am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Mind the gap
Posted By: 2547
Subject: Mind the gap
Date Posted: 26 Jul 13 at 8:20pm
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I was pondering that perhaps one of the challenge the sport faces is we are in the gap between moving from a volunteer based administration to a professional one that needs to be funded. At both a club and a association level I have observed less & less people willing to volunteer to run stuff these days as peoples lifestyles seem to get ever more hectic ... that means either stuff gets dropped or that work load falls onto the broad shoulders of the remaining volunteers. In the interim it seems that those unwilling to volunteer have not yet got to the point where they are willing to fund professional sports administrators to do what they are not prepared to do as volunteers. Are we in a generation where this transition will occur? |
Replies:
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 26 Jul 13 at 8:22pm
| no |
Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 26 Jul 13 at 8:28pm
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Already happened on the other side of the Channel - one of the main roles of the professionals being to set up the event so that the volunteers that do still exist (race officials and their helpers) have every thing they need to work. But then the French pay local taxes and expect councils to run things correctly, including employing staff to run sailing centres. The downside - mpossible to translate "club racing" in to words that a French sailor would understand. ------------- Gordon |
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 26 Jul 13 at 9:43pm
| And the bureaucracy surrounding racing too Gordon. |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 26 Jul 13 at 10:32pm
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I was just at a Worlds in France. Whilst the rescue crew etc were employed by the host sailing centre, the catering, bar and additional Committee boat crew (beyond the PRO- there was a pin end boat and a windward mark recorder too) were all local volunteers from what we were told. It is though a very different structure. Gordon's right that the concept of "club racing" is pretty much gone there. ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 26 Jul 13 at 11:25pm
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French bureaucracy is much exagerated -most of it is common sense. Like telling the harbour master that you are running a regatta! Volunteers are still there, but their work is prepared and aided by professional staff. The concept of "club racing" is not "gone" because it never existed. ------------- Gordon |
Posted By: rodney
Date Posted: 27 Jul 13 at 11:14am
In France most clubs run all of their events purely on a volunteer basis but some classes may choose to bring in their own PRO and, perhaps, their team to work with the local club members. Just back from Quiberon (French Finn Nationals) where they have the luxury of being able to run the event from L'Ecole Nationale de Voile (The National Sailing School) with many of their facilities available. They even had an after dinner firework display which was fantastic until they set Quiberon on fire.
There are a few clubs in France that run regular club racing but I have to admit it's very rare. Most French dinghy sailors use their local club for training and race only at Open meetings/National Champs etc. This tends to apply to most mainland Europe countries apart from Holland and Belgium where club racing seems to be on the cards but not every weekend like in the UK. ------------- Rodney Cobb Suntouched Sailboats Limited http://www.suntouched.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.suntouched.co.uk [EMAIL=rodney@suntouched.co.uk">rodney@suntouched.co.uk |
Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 29 Jul 13 at 10:39am
From that expansive response do I assume your club & class have a ready supply of volunteers? How do you achieve that?
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Posted By: yellowwelly
Date Posted: 29 Jul 13 at 11:02am
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Here's my view- semi-professionals form the membership base are the answer. I don't want to do duties or run sailing events.... I barely get to sail enough and dinghy sailing in a club is something I do outside of family time, not part of it. If it were more a family activity, then no doubt I'd put the time in to support my kids and their friends- I do in other facets of our lives, which actually impacts on my time on the water. But I'm not going to selfishly force my family to sit around any of the mozzie infested lakes in the midlands drinking crap tea.... a sea club, with a beach and/or nice town which is directly engaged with our social lives might be different. So when I go to the sailing club, I am prepared to pay for those services instead- through a levy on membership, or ideally a system which credits membership fees against renewal notices for those who do do the duties. I don't go to the gym and top the water bottle up or wash the bogs. I don't go to the cinema and roast my own popcorn or press 'play' when it's my turn to man to the reels. There are two target groups to get the resources needed- retired/semi retired and the student population- both these demographics of members would have people who would willingly to do an extra duty for £50 a day. If it needs 'offcialising' through employment contracts, then zero hour contracts could be created. It really is a no-brainer.... apart from getting the concept voted through the membership.... as it would ultimately be a vote in favour of increased subs, and in fairness it runs the very real risk of alienating the uncredited contribution.... why should someone get paid for sitting in the committee boat writing sail numbers down, but my admin time running the (insert class) class is done for free. ------------- |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 29 Jul 13 at 12:36pm
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ooh, and atual legitimate and moral use of zero hour contracts (unlike say employing most of the staff of a large chavwear chain on them) ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: GarethT
Date Posted: 29 Jul 13 at 12:51pm
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It seems that a lot of people want to be customers/consumers rather than members of a club. |
Posted By: yellowwelly
Date Posted: 29 Jul 13 at 1:02pm
yes please.... ------------- |
Posted By: GarethT
Date Posted: 29 Jul 13 at 1:10pm
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and how much more are you prepared to pay for the privilege? It would certainly help sailing live up to 'elitist' banner it gets given. Those that can afford to will be able treat the paupers like hired help!! (note: not accusing anyone on here of such rudeness, but I have witnessed club members treating volunteers like sh*t because they think they've paid for a service!)
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Posted By: yellowwelly
Date Posted: 29 Jul 13 at 1:19pm
Good question.... My current membership including a boat park space is £400 per year. This includes a premium for professional safety cover, something that was put to the test a few weeks ago, and thankfully proved to be very, very effective. You'd have to prise my dead hand into the air at the AGM to vote for a subs reduction in line with reduced professional safety cover. It just would never be worth the saving. How much would I pay to get out of race duties..... probably £50 per duty. That's what I plan to reverse sell my duties for next year if I get press-ganged on dutyman. Although I reckon it would create far less animosity if the membership fee was £500 and any member could earn back up to say, a £200 credit on the following year's renewal by working as a race officer / assistant race officer a few times. As these credits are not income, it would therefore not be required to be listed on tax return, although I'm not sure how much HMRC are monitoring black economies of local sports clubs.... do they really care that someone gets fifty quid for essentially the same thing as baby sitting? A formal contract complicates matters, especially if it involves PAYE....
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Posted By: GarethT
Date Posted: 29 Jul 13 at 1:24pm
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But if you are being paid to take on a role with safety responsibilities, and something goes wrong, are you more liable as a 'professional'? I suspect these things could have the potential to get very complicated should they ever be tested.
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Posted By: yellowwelly
Date Posted: 29 Jul 13 at 1:33pm
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I guess our club has liability cover for the pro rescue already, as most would through a combined liability policy already..... ------------- |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 29 Jul 13 at 2:45pm
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RYA training centres must have insurance that covers instructors, coaches and the like, including 3rd party liability. ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: yellowwelly
Date Posted: 29 Jul 13 at 3:16pm
so in other words, clubs which are official RYA training centres offer better protection for their members in terms of compo culture? ------------- |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 29 Jul 13 at 5:10pm
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Almost certainly. To my knowledge there haven't been that many claims - yet. But as a Principal I have to sign to say I have seen our insurance policy and am satisfied with it. Pretty scary. They are now also introducing training for club Principals so they can better cope with this stuff. Long overdue I think. Most members won't realise, but I now do a written risk assessment for every activity I run. I am a volunteer both at Hunts and at Sailability. I love Sailability, but get pretty cheesed off at Hunts sometimes. I did have a member not long ago who was surprised at being asked to unrig her club boat, plus another who blatantly told me she was sending a kid on a course for cheap childcare. It doesn't happen a lot, but it does happen. The other side of that is when you get people go from complete beginners to decent instructors completely through your system, or youths who you train up almost from scratch who go and do well in the wider world. Not a financial reward, but better. ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 29 Jul 13 at 6:16pm
Just because you have paid for a service does not give you the right to be rude to the person providing that service, that is just ignorance.
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Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 29 Jul 13 at 6:34pm
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I think the worst role is that of galley volunteer. It seems as soon as you step behind a counter you become a second class citizen. The govt has a major drive for recruiting volunteers right now, following on from the huge success of the gmes makers. This morning I saw that Silverstone have followed suit with 'racemakers' doing stuff like directing traffic for parking etc. This morning Her Inddors got five applications from people who want to volunteer as athletics officials. That never normally happens, but this weekend saw the major pr around the Anniversary Games. ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 29 Jul 13 at 6:59pm
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 03 Aug 13 at 10:49pm
The customer is very often wrong, not to mention dishonest, rude and even ugly and unpleasant smelling, but its normally bad policy to let them know. |