What CAT
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Multihulls
Forum Name: Dinghy multihulls
Forum Discription: For those who prefer two (or more) hulls to one!
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10791
Printed Date: 26 Jun 25 at 9:26am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: What CAT
Posted By: AJ 348
Subject: What CAT
Date Posted: 26 Mar 13 at 9:29am
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Hi - Newbie on Here. I'm heavily involved with running a specific car forum so I'm aware how annoying it is to get the same old questions from newbies week in / out but that still not going to stop me doing it here ..  I sailed a Dart 15 for 10 years and then moved to an RS600 for 3 years. The RS is too much for me now I'm getting as bit older so I'm looking for something else. On the short list at the moment is Dart 16 or Topaz 14 Extreme. I'm 80kg and 5'8"with plenty of trapeze experience. I want a single handed cat but with a kite. Read lots of reviews on each of these boats but these are by sail magazines and I'd prefer to hear from people out there actually sailing them. I have also looked at the Shadow which looks good but are quite expensive. I have a budget of about £3k after I sell the RS600. Will consider others. Your thoughts please. Thanks  Andy - Essex
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Replies:
Posted By: Owenfackrell
Date Posted: 26 Mar 13 at 11:30am
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Andy. I haven't sailed an Topaz 14 extreme but judjing by youtube there are a few at carsling sailing club. It does look like a fun cat to sail on your own.
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Posted By: a_dowley
Date Posted: 26 Mar 13 at 12:38pm
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Shadow is a great boat, although they are expensive they do hold their value. Have you also thought about a Dart 18? They can be sailed single handed with a trapeze and you can also add the jib to sail with crew. Cheers Andrew ------------- https://www.sailingchandlery.com/rope-for-sale.html" rel="nofollow - Rope for sale https://www.sailingchandlery.com" rel="nofollow - Sailing Chandlery - Online Chandlery - Number 1 Rated |
Posted By: ASok
Date Posted: 26 Mar 13 at 12:42pm
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Not sure about the shadow as I've never sailed one, but they do look good. Dart 18 would be a no for you if you want a cat with a kite. They are good fun singlehanded and you're weight/height looks good for them.
Never sailed a Topaz, but I've helped carry one to the beach and I thought it was really heavy ------------- |
Posted By: AJ 348
Date Posted: 26 Mar 13 at 12:45pm
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Thanks for input so far. |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 26 Mar 13 at 12:47pm
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Has the F16 concept died off then... I would have thought a 'Stealth' or similar would be good. I enjoyed the one I sailed.
%20 - http://www.formula16.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=9ec2aa67dec7c3a0dd97581bd9d2b216&f=17 [TUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKIEP6Zga6s[/TUBE] ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: AJ 348
Date Posted: 26 Mar 13 at 12:48pm
Hi, thanks I've never tried the Topaz but what I had read, they were meant to be really light ? Perhaps miss-read it. As my previous post, I don't want anything heavy as we have quite a steep & slippery hard. I'm spoilt with the RS as it weighs practically nothing
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Posted By: AJ 348
Date Posted: 26 Mar 13 at 12:53pm
Thanks Jack - That clip certainly looks very good - think I'll do a bit of F16 / Stealth research ....
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Posted By: ASok
Date Posted: 26 Mar 13 at 2:46pm
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Definitely try before you buy. I may be mixing the Topaz up with something else, but I'm sure it a Topaz I was lifting. Just felt heavy for the size.
I know the Dart 18 can seem like an intimidating beast to shunt around the boat park, but they aren't that bad. I sail out of Netley and launch off the pebble beach with a small wheel trailer and its not that bad - could be easier admittedly
They do a genny kit for the Dart 18 - never used it and only ever seen one set up. It looks (and is) an after thought, so might not perform as well as a boat thats designed for as assy. ------------- |
Posted By: shadeux
Date Posted: 26 Mar 13 at 6:29pm
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I think you've written the spec for a Shadow. It's worth keeping an eye on the association forum as they do come up for sale and that is where they are most likely to be advertised. Have you considered the Sprint 15DX ? The new rig seems to have transfomed the boat although I haven't sailed one. ------------- Bruce Shadow002 |
Posted By: Sprint Bob
Date Posted: 26 Mar 13 at 6:55pm
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If you are not careful you will have few boats to race except in handicap events.
In my experience few capable sailors stick with the Dart 16 it's owners are mostly fun sailors. People that are interested in racing get tired of no/little racing scene and quickly move on. The Topaz is good value for money but you rarely see 2 together. If you have grown out of the Sprint 15 it is worth going for broke and getting a Shadow. There are not vast numbers about but they have some good sailors in their fleet and can get 10+ boats to a Nationals.
Cheers
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Posted By: AJ 348
Date Posted: 26 Mar 13 at 10:09pm
I think you're right - but I've only seen one for sale recently and that was way over my budget. I will look up the association and keep an eye out. Single handed cats at my club are all Dart 15's and historically we've had good numbers for weekend club racing. Although I want to race again I don't want to go back to a 15 really. We have a good cat turn out and a complete mix on various handicaps so not really tied to one design. I'm not likely to be looking at nationals anymore.
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Posted By: AJ 348
Date Posted: 26 Mar 13 at 10:25pm
I feared the 16 was a bit more of a 'fun boat' than others. From what I read it's impossible to pitch pole them ... where's the fun in that ?? Although i need something a little less demanding than the RS600, I still want a thrill, especially down wind. I will race what ever i buy but as my post above; we have a huge mix of cats all racing with handicap so I could use anything really and still get some decent club racing in. As before, loved the 15 when i had it and raced pretty well on it but I'm determined to have more downwind fun. |
Posted By: themeaningoflife
Date Posted: 26 Mar 13 at 10:29pm
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I imagine you're at Thorpe Bay, sounds exactly like your description. The F16 suggestion sounds best to me, since it would both be able to be singlehanded but also encourage some of the 29er sailors and other youth sailors into cats, thus giving you competition as well. ------------- Cambridge University Lightweight Rowing Club RS800 1128 kindly sponsored by http://www.rwo-marine.com" rel="nofollow - RWO Marine |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 26 Mar 13 at 10:36pm
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This is definitely not true. I only know that this is true from experience. I've definitely done it- on flat water! ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: AJ 348
Date Posted: 26 Mar 13 at 10:39pm
Nope - Marconi but I have been to Thorpe Bay and yes, it's a good cat club.
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Posted By: themeaningoflife
Date Posted: 26 Mar 13 at 10:44pm
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Oh ok, my mistake. ------------- Cambridge University Lightweight Rowing Club RS800 1128 kindly sponsored by http://www.rwo-marine.com" rel="nofollow - RWO Marine |
Posted By: shadeux
Date Posted: 27 Mar 13 at 10:12am
I have a 6 inch scar up the back of my shoulder following surgery, following "posterior dislocation" of left shoulder following pitchpolling a D16. But not on flat! As I have said elsewhere, you can capsize/pitchpole any multihull if you really want to but the Shadow with the big kite is so predictable and managable you just can't help but push harder. I've been sailing the bloody thing for 5 years or so and it still puts a stupid grin on my face after a good blast. That said, the F16 would be a good choice for the reasons given by meaningof life but I think they are even rarer than Shadows. If you are at Marconi (great club BTW) there is a Shadow at Stone if you wanted a closer look. If not, some of us will be up for the ECPR. ------------- Bruce Shadow002 |
Posted By: Owenfackrell
Date Posted: 27 Mar 13 at 10:58am
I have an 18 and i sail her on my own including the lanching and they are not bad to handle on your own. The slip i use is some times badley covered in weed and that can make it harder but i find that if you use a couple of bricks or stones you can zig zag your way up. Even putting th emas up and down is preety straight forward.
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Posted By: catmandoo
Date Posted: 27 Mar 13 at 12:57pm
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The fella here says hes looking for a singlehanded cat with a kite , so not much point harping on about darts really , yes they can have kites but most people agree not entirely suited , A stealth fits his brief and budget and his size , they are available not that rare , infact a trip to datchet may find just what hes looking for , shadows are good boats too , but out his brief on expense. Carbon mast makes righting easy , wings on rudders vastly reduce nosediving and allow fully powered up down wind kite sailing when its honking and the ability to bear away through danger zone with confidence YOU can have a lot of high performance fun in a stealth , with latest sail developments and carbon masts at the price he can afford . ------------- |
Posted By: AJ 348
Date Posted: 27 Mar 13 at 1:33pm
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Was very impressed with Stealth & also remain impressed with Shadow. Certainly glad I posted as this has opened my eyes to some other boats. I must admit, haven't been able to see either for sale within budget yet but I'm guessing they'll be more stuff coming on the market as Spring arrives. I also have to sell the RS600 ...and Lazer 4000 before ...So her-in-doors says (this is unlikely to actually happen ) Andy
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Posted By: Owenfackrell
Date Posted: 27 Mar 13 at 3:11pm
My comment was more that if others come to this thread looking for a singlehanded cat (which is the sort of thing i would do) then they can see the Dart can be done easily as apposed to recomending the dart in this instance.
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Posted By: RichTea
Date Posted: 27 Mar 13 at 6:55pm
A_dowley and myself are both Marconi sailors too, if i see you, i will come nd say hi, I did wonder this morning if it was you that had th 4k too. We did have a member with an FX (another single hander) but I don't have a cat list to see if its still in the cat park. |
Posted By: AJ 348
Date Posted: 27 Mar 13 at 9:15pm
My days with the D15 at MCSC were back in the mid 90's - i think i still have my small collection of trophies somewhere. This was when I'd battle out the series with Mr. Tovey Jnr. I left when the nippers came along and moved to a BWSC, mainly for the training lake for the kids. Returned to MCSC 2010 - I'd forgotten how good the club was. I must admit I generally sail the RS in the weekday evenings so I don't see too many other members. I prefer to sail it when its quiet as during the weekend I get fed up with the safety boat continually asking why my boats upside down ...again  Anyway, hope to head back into the cat park sometime this year and get back to Sunday racing -be afraid
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Posted By: Multiplex
Date Posted: 29 Mar 13 at 3:47pm
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Suprised no-one has mentioned one of these! Super light, therefore easy to handle and launch. Super fast, not much gets past them uphill and super elegant! http://www.aclasscatamaran.co.uk/nats/IMG_0665_5.jpg - http://www.aclasscatamaran.co.uk/nats/IMG_0665_5.jpg No kite though, but why spoil a good thing! ------------- British A class Catamaran Association Hon. Sec. Aus Flyer GBR 38 RSC |
Posted By: AJ 348
Date Posted: 29 Mar 13 at 7:10pm
undoubtedly a very elegant boat and I've chased them up wind before and failed too. But, I want the kite, I need the thrill both ways - up & down ! Thanks |
Posted By: stewart smith
Date Posted: 05 Apr 13 at 4:04pm
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The Shadow is a great boat, both up and downwind, with an active class racing. It is a single seater only, therefor no joyrides for the family. In light evening races I sometimes use my Spitfire with main sail and spinnaker. If the wind picks up it real fun but the great thing about sailing at Grafham is that fact that its a lake and the rescue cover is good, which allows you to sail outside ypour comfort zone. ------------- Stewart Smith |