Star back in?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Olympic Sailing
Forum Discription: The top end racing in our sport
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10721
Printed Date: 25 Jun 25 at 7:22am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Star back in?
Posted By: pondmonkey
Subject: Star back in?
Date Posted: 21 Feb 13 at 1:45pm
Can anyone confirm... 
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Replies:
Posted By: ellistine
Date Posted: 21 Feb 13 at 1:56pm
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http://sailinganarchy.com/2013/02/21/when-you-wish-upon-a-star/ - http://sailinganarchy.com/2013/02/21/when-you-wish-upon-a-star/ ------------- |
Posted By: kingdacks
Date Posted: 21 Feb 13 at 5:51pm
| We would have heard more about it, if this was the case. I do believe there is a IOC rule that does exist. |
Posted By: Mark Jardine
Date Posted: 21 Feb 13 at 8:16pm
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If this is true, then it's quite a scoop! If the IOC rule exists, what event did London 2012 choose as their 'wild card'? |
Posted By: kingdacks
Date Posted: 21 Feb 13 at 8:38pm
| They didn't, but China did, I think London was interested in implementing golf or rugby sevens. I believe they implemented wushu. The star could return as a demonstration sport could it not. |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 21 Feb 13 at 8:58pm
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"Demonstration Sports" are no more- it's now "core sports" and "additional sports". Rio's "additional sports" are Rugby Sevens and Golf. Yes, Golf. Rugby and Golf are gone entirely in 2020, and Wrestling is in the list of possible "additional sports" (up to three) ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: kingdacks
Date Posted: 21 Feb 13 at 9:04pm
| That still doesnt explain if the star is back in. It would be good to know sailing anarchies source. There has been little word of it on y and y before. |
Posted By: Mark Jardine
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 5:41am
I have to admit it's the first I've heard of this - as said earlier, if this is true then SA have picked up a real scoop - good on 'em! |
Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 7:49am
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Justice at last - Olympic sailing will not be reserved for the dwarves!
------------- Gordon |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 8:30am
My understanding would be that a host city cannot add a sport, discipline or event, and therefore the story is either fundeamentally wrong, or is right but with the wrong explanation. ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 9:03am
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Strange. It couldn't be as a demonstration sport because the sport is already in.
SA's sub editor is not the most reliable of sources, being IMO somewhat gullible when it comes to sensational rumours, but there is one poster on their forum who has a reasonable amount of sport admin experience who claims that the Host country is allowed to nominate one event if they pick up the complete tab. A fair bit of web searching this AM has failed to find any reference to this though. I await any further news with interest... |
Posted By: kingdacks
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 10:04am
| I think the governing body decides what goes in its discipline, then is ratified by the ioc. |
Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 10:58am
Cycling ------------- Needs to sail more... |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 11:19am
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London only had 26 sports- Baseball and Softball got dropped, the IOC failed to agree what to have to replace them.
Wushu at Beijing wasn't officially part of the Olympics.There was no equivalent at London.
Cycling was, and still is, a "core sport". ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 12:00pm
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The Star? So kiteboarding doesn't get a look in and that ancient piece of garbage does, I'm surprised the Chinese didn't put forward a Junk, at least the comedic element of old people trawling around in a period piece on water might be vaguely interesting to anyone other than the blazered buffers and has been yotties looking for somewhere to pasture.. If it wasn't so pathetic, you'd have to laugh.
------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 12:18pm
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Kindergarden has just closed I see! The Star works because so many fantastic sailors appreciate it's qualities, because it can be sailed without having to be too anorexic (bring back the old weight limits) and because it is the pinnacle of the type of sailing that most people do. If the Brazilians are prepared to pay for the event then let us all congratlate them. How many people on this forum have ever sailed a serious Star regatta? ------------- Gordon |
Posted By: GybeFunny
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 12:36pm
| If the host can pick an event why didnt London pick 'talking about the weather' or another such event that we could fill the podium on? |
Posted By: kingdacks
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 12:55pm
| Cycling, always will be a core sport. |
Posted By: kingdacks
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 12:56pm
| There is an interesting question though, what happens when the olympics goes to a land locked country, would they hold olympic regattas on lakes and resevoirs. |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 12:57pm
Rather a contestable statement. I've seen no statistics that suggest open keelboats without spinnakers form a very high percentage of the world's sailing activity. Indeed I submit that statement has even less foundation than some of the wilder claims that came from the multihull people when the Tornado was cut.
There are precedents for having an event in a different country - its happened a couple of times with horses, so I suspect that would be the most likely option. I don't think the summer games have ever been held in a land locked country. |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 1:13pm
------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 1:14pm
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Jim C Stars at the olympics would be one of the pinacles of keelboat racing. There are certainly more people sailing keelboats (with or without cabins, spinakers etc) than dinghies - this may be a matter for regret. I thought the British choice of sport was "spot the celeb" with no points fror Kate (as she was there allthe tile, and huge points for spotting a professional footballer playing for a British club as they seemed totally absent ------------- Gordon |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 1:33pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bids_for_the_Summer_Olympics - here's the list of all bidders ever
But really, most of the worlds big cities aren't that far from the sea. ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 1:36pm
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(I see both myself and Jim have now waded in to question the story on SA. He's gone polite, I've gone SA style) ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: kingdacks
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 2:53pm
| So do we know anybody on this forum thats in the know, about the status of the star. I think there is a general shift occurring away from western economies wanting to hold the olympics. |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 3:27pm
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Sailing a bloody keelboat can hardly be called a sport now can it? Any more than Golf, it's an expensive pastime, requiring little atheletic ability, hardly an Olympian ideal, hell it's only 'Sir' Ben that gives sailing those Finn tubs any sense of expenditure of energy and that's hardly enough to make any red blooded athlete break sweat. Sailing is what sailing does and wonderful as it maybe, only the sportier boats can really describe themselves using that tag 'sport' with any sense of justification for Olympic inclusion. Hell that Star and what was that other 3 fat blokes in a boat abomination that used to allude to Olympic competition, I forget but it's gone, the Star should stay gone as well and Kite should accompany windsurfing to bring the activity to a far wider base than the privileged fat boys of Northern Europe and Brazil. ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 3:40pm
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Graeme, we're talking about a five ring circus where fat people with guns can compete as long as they can get their heart rate down far enough. The bar for how "sporty" you've got to be for the olympics is pretty low.
As I mentioned up there, Golf is a sport at Rio. ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: pondmonkey
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 3:46pm
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Anyone care to sling Grumpf over the side of Star for one their championship upwinders and see how long he can last? I tell you what, he can even redevelop the harness if it makes it a more sporting challenge....\ Olympic Sailing ought to have a keelboat in it. Now I don't care if that's a mixed or single sex keelboat, match racing, team racing or fleet racing Stars, Sonars, Etchells or J24s... something ought to be in there to represent that huge number of competitive sailors who race on keelboats around the world.
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Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 3:55pm
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The olympics should also have a proper boat for heavy weights - the Star fills both categories. In response to GRF sailing is not only about waterborne circus acts for tiny acrobats. ------------- Gordon |
Posted By: pondmonkey
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 4:07pm
FTFY ------------- |
Posted By: kingdacks
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 4:32pm
| GRF your comment is one of the stupidest i have seen on this forum. |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 4:42pm
So, though it seems there is a route back in, the Star Class have reponded quickly to douse the rumour
(Northampton Sailboats, Speed Sails and the Firbeall class could do well to take note of how swiftly this was concluded) ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: kingdacks
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 4:53pm
| Good on them for resolving them quickly. At least it gives star teams a chance to look for something else. An 11th sailing medal is unlikely to be the star, I could see it being kiteboarding or maybe a return to match racing. |
Posted By: pondmonkey
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 5:01pm
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... makes me glad I used a question mark in the thread title. (agreed with your points about PR Al.)
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Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 5:04pm
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Shut up will you? Carry on down this path and you'll have the whole of bloody sailing flung out of the Olympics, you might find it wonderful, but I can assure you TV viewers turn to watching their lawns grow rather than trying to follow the delights of the old buffers in their Stars. Stop and think of the broader picture, exactly why 'they' wanted the pull of kiting to continue to justify the expensive elitist circus that is sailing and all it involves, the further down the narrow rich boy paths it treads, the more surely it is writing it's own exit path. Personally I could give a toss about kites in competition, but it does offer instant access to global participation, which is more than can be said for the Star. How is the Kenyan Star Team doing I wonder? ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: pondmonkey
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 5:10pm
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[recycled argument] who gives a f**k about the TV viewers... that won't watch any sailing regardless. If the Olympics is ONLY about the TV, then screw it.... sailing's buggered whatever class 'they' happen to vote in, including kiteboard racing, which is also sh*t to participate in, as well as watch as they use even less accessible kit than the windyplankers. ------------- |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 22 Feb 13 at 6:10pm
Umm, maybe not if its the Host country's say so. Brazil would have an excellent medal chance in the Olympic coffin, which in turn would probably give it a very good local TV audience. |
Posted By: Andymac
Date Posted: 23 Feb 13 at 9:19am
I'd reserve judgement on that until the fallout from the 'Armstrong' affair has been settled. If the UCI (cycling authority) were shown to be complicit in it, then the IOC could have no option, but to drop Cycling...
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Posted By: kingdacks
Date Posted: 23 Feb 13 at 1:37pm
| No because the IOC have there own anti doping agency. So its fine. Cycling is a core sport, also its where we get most of are medals, we dont wnat it to be dropped. |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 23 Feb 13 at 2:20pm
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On the Olympic venue/Land locked country thing, I just found section 34 of the Olympic Charter:-
- http://www.olympic.org/Documents/olympic_charter_en.pdf This says that all events must be held in the host country for summmer events, but may be held in adjoining countries for winter events. Somehow I suspect that might be hastily changed if it came down to it though... Still haven't found any reference to the extra event clause, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The IOC is every bit as bureaucratic as any UK government office. It could be on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet, stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying “Beware of the Leopard”... |
Posted By: kingdacks
Date Posted: 23 Feb 13 at 4:23pm
| Is it in the olympics charter that two countries can have a joint bid. |
Posted By: Roger
Date Posted: 23 Feb 13 at 5:07pm
Countries don't bid, cities do. |
Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 23 Feb 13 at 5:52pm
Agreed. Why does GRF bother even sailing if he hates it so much? I don't really like golf so I don't play it. grrrrrrrrr ------------- Needs to sail more... |
Posted By: kingdacks
Date Posted: 23 Feb 13 at 7:17pm
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Why does grf spend his life on this forum ? |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 23 Feb 13 at 8:53pm
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Olympic sailing doesn't have to be on the sea. In 1900 it was on a river. So if the Swiss bid, no probs, it can be on a lake. I can't think of any lanlocked countries with cities big enough to bid where there isn't a big lake nearby.
------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 23 Feb 13 at 10:21pm
Don't panic...that's why the stars still know where their towel is...
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Posted By: Sheetpuller
Date Posted: 25 Mar 13 at 6:16pm
For as long as I can remember, the biggest recruiting ground for sailing has been from the offspring of those already involved in the sport, and I'd venture to say that this is true of almost any sport bar football. I think it's still true and I can't see it changing any time soon.
If I'm right, then the question comes down to a very simple choice; we either arrange sailing for the somnolent masses on the sofa (who don't give a sh*t anyway) or we do so for those who actually go out and get wet. The clipboard and blazer brigade sitting in their committee meetings still subscribe to the delusion and plot accordingly. It's up to us, ordinary club sailors with loads of enthusiasm but restricted time, budget and, at least in my case talent, to ensure that the sport stays true to a form we can all continue to enjoy. Because when it comes down to it, that's what sport is for; not nationalism via olympic medals for a small elite - it's meant to be fun for all. ------------- I'm not arguing. I'm explaining why I'm right. Merlin Rocket 3545 - 'Smooth Operator' Sprint 15 1342 - 'Still Crazy' |
Posted By: pondmonkey
Date Posted: 27 Mar 13 at 7:25pm
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Spot on Sheetpuller! IMHO- the Olympic Regatta is the pinnacle of the elements of this sport I enjoy. Proper racing - boat on boat. ------------- |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 27 Mar 13 at 11:16pm
Personally I agree, it is a con, but as far as the longevity of the sport is concerned and despite having the One Design Class I helped create, totally destroyed by it, I still believe if only in that proud parents push little johnny and jessica into the melting pot in bigger numbers than they might otherwise if it were just what it has always been, a little elitist pastime for the better off. Knowing what happens as I do, I loath and despise everything about the way the kids are churned through the system, having lost not only the class, but my own offsprings enthusiasm at the hands of those tasked with the training and selection, it is a shame the gift is squandered, but, still better we have it than not, so when 'they' the powers that be make ludicrous decisions that jeopardise the future of sailing in the Olympics, I tend to become annoyed. |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 28 Mar 13 at 7:29am
| totally agree on why most get involved in sailing and my views on dumbing down sailing for TV are previously stated on many a thread.... only comment on this is; when i'm sitting on my couch, with a can of lager, watching the sailing in the Olympics, I don't want to see Stars racing, thanks.. couldn't care less how old they are, how they "reflect" on the "rest of the sport" or ever dare to think I'd be any where near as good as the guys sailing them last time around.... I just find lead-mine racing boring to watch, far rather see some cats doing 20knts+ or 49ers nose-diving into 3ft waves, heck lets have some foiling moth action. |
Posted By: pondmonkey
Date Posted: 28 Mar 13 at 9:47am
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I think a lot of comes down to the filming and the manner in which I watch... whilst I took a week off watching the internet TV simultaneously with Mark's CoveritLive page on here, I found the best races were the Finns and Stars, as the tactical elements were being discussed as we watched. That said if I was at home, using a proper TV with all manner of other crap going on in the background, then yep, foiling moths look good on the telly for ambient visual appeal... it's similar to freestyle snowboarding looking better in an alpine bar on the tele in the corner when compared to nordic skiing. Personally I still think there should be a keelboat in the event, and without any knowledge of a better alternative, the Star seems to fit the bill quite nicely. Maybe the SB20 would be good- mixed crew? I remember getting a free DVD from VW Toureg featuring Chris Draper in one, that was good to watch iirc.
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Posted By: NickM
Date Posted: 28 Mar 13 at 12:43pm
| I know it's been said on here before but the 18 footer TV coverage is the sort of TV that I would hope might get younger non-sailors interested in the sport. The commentary is quite technical, but it can be for other sports too if you have never played them, e.g. rugby. People are likely to be curious and want to understand better what it is all about. I wonder what the viewing figures for the 18 footers TV are like in Oz. |
Posted By: Sheetpuller
Date Posted: 29 Mar 13 at 11:23pm
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I believe the audience in Oz is quite high; certainly high enough for the TV companies to put in some real effort to get good footage. I remember watching some 18ft skiff sailing once - it might have been on the Ronstan stand at the dinghy show. I was thinking that the coverage was really good when I saw something in the water. I had to wait for the film clip to finish and restart before I could see what it was. Yep - that's a cameraman in a flotation suit, camera on a shoulder mount and tethered on a line to the windward mark! 2/10 for elf 'n safety, but 12/10 for balls! Don't forget though that Australia is probably a special case. Almost all of its inhabitants live either on the coast or very close to it, and therefore the exposure to water sports of all kinds is probably much higher than over here, even given the number of river and reservoir clubs we have. And the result is a kind of virtuous circle, with a high level of participation feeding the TV coverage, which in turn further promotes the sport. In the end, it's all about critical mass. ------------- I'm not arguing. I'm explaining why I'm right. Merlin Rocket 3545 - 'Smooth Operator' Sprint 15 1342 - 'Still Crazy' |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 30 Mar 13 at 9:19am
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the 18ftrs haven't been covered by "proper" tele for years- what we do get is excellent coverage from a single camera boat run a shoestring budget.
------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: Presuming Ed
Date Posted: 30 Mar 13 at 11:39am
I reckon that Iain Percy, Robert Schiedt & Hamish Pepper (amongst others) have shown that the skills to sail are Star aren't particularly difficult to acquire (for sailors of that quality), so apart from it being a boat for the .....larger..... of our brethren, I don't really see what it brings. To me, keelboat sailing is all about boats big enough that the guy steering isn't trimming at the same time - Lewis Hamilton doesn't have to talk to his foot to control his throttle. But with the limit of 380 sailors (IIRC), you're never going to get a big keelboat in. And the cost of boats and facilities is a big negative as well.
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Posted By: Mark Jardine
Date Posted: 01 Apr 13 at 7:51am
| As reported in Scuttlebutt today, it's not the Star that has made the return to the Olympic fold... it's the Yngling - http://email.sailingscuttlebutt.com/t/ViewEmailArchive/j/3BE6427666AE3FA3/C67FD2F38AC4859C/ - http://email.sailingscuttlebutt.com/t/ViewEmailArchive/j/3BE6427666AE3FA3/C67FD2F38AC4859C/ |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 01 Apr 13 at 8:05am
 ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: Sheetpuller
Date Posted: 01 Apr 13 at 3:37pm
If the report had stated that ISAF had made the decision, I might have given it some credence; they are as daft as a bucket of frogs at times. The real indicator that this is an April Fools joke is that it is attributed to Jacques Rogge - he has far too much sense. Actually he should be running ISAF - but he's got too much sense for that too! ------------- I'm not arguing. I'm explaining why I'm right. Merlin Rocket 3545 - 'Smooth Operator' Sprint 15 1342 - 'Still Crazy' |
Posted By: Sunseeker
Date Posted: 29 Apr 13 at 8:19pm
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Today I spoke to a well known Brazilian ISAF member and ex Brazilian Olympian. "It's a done deal, Star class will feature in Rio" His words not mine.
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 29 Apr 13 at 8:28pm
| Odd then that Scheidt is spending so much time in a Laser... But I know nothing relevant. |
Posted By: Sunseeker
Date Posted: 29 Apr 13 at 8:49pm
| You are right, what Scheidt is doing now is not necessarily relevent. How much time did Ben spend in the Finn in 2009, or for that matter in 2010 or 2011? Surely you are not suggesting that because he is spending time in a Laser he would not be capable of getting back into a Star should he choose to do so. |