EU Referendum
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Category: General
Forum Name: Banter
Forum Discription: For all those non-sailing related discussions
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10656
Printed Date: 28 Jun 25 at 5:59pm
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Topic: EU Referendum
Posted By: pondmonkey
Subject: EU Referendum
Date Posted: 23 Jan 13 at 9:29am
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What do people think about that then... in or out? What's the reality of actually delivering a changed EU superstructure? Is it just hypothetical rhetoric to prevent seepage to UKIP? Besides, isn't it pointless as everyone knows Ed Milliband will landslide the next GE anyway
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Replies:
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 23 Jan 13 at 10:08am
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Out, being part of a Federal United States of Europe was never supposed to be the deal. I've traded with the b**tards most of my career, still am and level playing field it aint, even down to a simple thing like ebay, you try to set up an ebay account to deal with Germany, it can't be done they can sell this way, we can't sell their way.
Both France and Germany are extremely nationalistic in their trading styles, methods and business practices, about the only thing we have against the b**tards is the City and call me Dave is right to keep them from imposing their bloody tax on it however badly we might feel about the City cretins. No, immigration, taxation, waste, and cultural differences are all reason to f**k it off, they'll still trade, it's in their interest and I doubt it'll be much different than it is now, at least we won't be under the illusion that it's a free market when it never really has been. |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 23 Jan 13 at 12:46pm
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GRF as is sometimes the case, "there's a lot in what you say"... As someone who works for a multi-national (along with 10's of thousands for others) I'd much rather see a re-negotiation than a simplist "in/out" referendum. I'm worried that the Corry-watching/Sun-reading "man in the street" will be more than happy to stick 2 fingers up to "johny foreigner" without the slightest clue or ability (in some cases) to understand what the heck they are actually saying no to. For what it's worth, I know several colleagues and friends in Germany, France and Italy who would also dearly love to see a re-neg on the whole "EU structure" as it's not working too well for them either..!! ps. While I dislike the old boys club in the city and wonder why they still haven't grasped the simple idea of employing people because they might actually be good at their job rather than know the right people, I'd much rather they paid their taxes than see it spread out across the rest of us when they all bugger off to Frankfurt or Paris, where, despite their failings, they'd be welcomed with open arms pps. same as above for premiership footballers
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Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 23 Jan 13 at 4:35pm
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for anyone suggesting that we be like Norway, I must find a recent Economist article that set out that Norway's current position is that they pay almost as much (pro rata) into the EU, have to comply with most EU rules, and have absolutely no say over what those EU rules are. They have to go along, as if they were to find themselves booted out of the EEA for not complying, their economy would tank with very little impact on Europe as a whole..
Same article suggested that Switzerland is going down that road too. If Britain left the EU, we'd have to accept a similar deal. ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: Roger
Date Posted: 23 Jan 13 at 5:50pm
Time often twists our memory, but I seem to recall that Ted Heath, who took us into the Common Market, always said that the ultimate aim was for a single European State, but that this would take decades to achieve. It was the one reason I voted NO in the 1975 referendum, but of course the public said YES and we stayed in, it was the first time I was able to vote, and all too long ago. Today there are many issues I believe quite strongly are wrong, not only with our contribution to Europe, but also in the attitude taken by many over the consequences of leaving. Inevitably there would be a short term cost on leaving the EU, but long term the UK would survive and prosper, there are many and quite varied arguments that hold water and clearly show they need us more than we need them, think of them what you wish, but don't underestimate the power and strength of "The City" it is highly influential worldwide and would likely not suffer from leaving the EU. I do buy the benefits of tax free borders, but there are negatives too, and it would be a long discussion to open here. Companies will make headlines saying they will pull out of the UK if we are not part of Europe, but to be honest its all talk and will never happen, at least not enough for us to feel the effects, as major players will not sacrifice this market, and don't forget the government can then make it pretty appealing to stay. Overall I don't think its a very easy decision at the moment, and to make it clear, I work for a major German mulitnational. |
Posted By: pondmonkey
Date Posted: 23 Jan 13 at 7:35pm
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I think there is sound justification for attempting to re-establish a more rational, comfortable programme of cooperation around trade agreements, however further unity, in my opinion fundamentally jeopardises our local economy- take for example migrant workforces. Okay I'll accept that if they do a job cheaper, then there's some benefit for industry- payroll's a killer, (incidentally it would be a hell of lot easier to employ people without EU red-tape) However where does the temporary worker's earnings go? They're rarely recycled back into the local UK economy in the same way a naturalized US green card holder would contribute back to the US economy. It's off to Western Union.... And the floodgates are open again in less than a year too.... Surely someone, somewhere needs to give our kids a chance of earning a living first?
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Posted By: blueboy
Date Posted: 23 Jan 13 at 8:03pm
Not long ago I was trying to recruit software developers in London. I got applications from half the countries in Europe but applications from Brits were rarer than hens teeth. I've worked with young Brits with postgrad qualifications in IT, lovely kids, keen, anxious to please but they could do nothing. Even given the time and opportunity to develop the skills. Even when briefed, supported, encouraged and cajoled. It was a very depressing experience. I don't know what's wrong with our education system but something the hell is. |
Posted By: blueboy
Date Posted: 23 Jan 13 at 8:10pm
Yep, that's where Cameron's referendum is liable to take us. If GBR were allowed to negotiate a sweetheart deal for exit, it would just encourage others to ask for the same. It ain't gonna happen. |
Posted By: timeintheboat
Date Posted: 23 Jan 13 at 8:32pm
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I don't buy it. It's a political distraction more about what is good for the Tory party than what is good for the country. It's a politician making promises about something couched in "IFs" a long way ahead in political time and promises and politicians only normally have one outcome. ------------- Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else |
Posted By: BBSCFaithfull
Date Posted: 24 Jan 13 at 2:18pm
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Out for me or atleast more control. Ie less money put in and more authority over our own justice system. ------------- Greatfully Sponsored By www.allgoodfun.com Int 14 GBR 1503!! |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 26 Jan 13 at 7:38am
Perhaps we can justify funding our Navy (before it's gone) by creating a 'ring of steel' around our fishing waters and shooting our way into areas off the european coast.... just like the old days! We just need a one-eyed, one-armed admiral and someone French to blame it all on 
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