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Scooby_simon View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20 Jun 07 at 10:26am
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Contender443

So say L is racing and W is just out for an afternoon cruise in the Solent. I would guess L has to abide by collision regs and keep clear.


Exactly so. Racing rules only apply to boats that have agreed to use them by entering a race held under ISAF rules. If in doubt colregs. Many racing sailors would do well to remember that!

 

Now, how about this.

Boat A is over taking boat B

Boat A is sailing in race Y

Boat B is sailing in race Z

Can A use the colregs as the boats are not sailing in the SAME race ?   Or does the fact that both boats are using the ISAF rules take precidence in this case of different races but under the same rules ?

 



Edited by Scooby_simon
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 07 at 10:19am
Originally posted by Contender443

So say L is racing and W is just out for an afternoon cruise in the Solent. I would guess L has to abide by collision regs and keep clear.


Exactly so. Racing rules only apply to boats that have agreed to use them by entering races held under ISAF rules. If in doubt colregs. Many racing sailors would do well to remember that!

Edited by JimC
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Contender443 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1211 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 07 at 8:35am

Ah but if you are not racing then the overtaking boat is a very important rule. It is part of collision regs.

So say L is racing and W is just out for an afternoon cruise in the Solent. I would guess L has to abide by collision regs and keep clear.
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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Posts: 1599 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 07 at 4:35am

Originally posted by WildWood

Is it correct then that there is no need to be clear ahead, and leeward boats can luff from the moment they become overlapped ?

What do you mean by "luff"? L can sail her proper course, which may be higher than W's proper course. L can't put the tiller down hard, which is what is usually meant by a "luff".

I'm not too sure the rules have changed in this respect. What did fundamentally change a decade ago were the rules around what L could do if threatened by W, with the demise of the "mast abeam" curtailment of luffing rights.

It's a little simplistic to say there is "no overtaking rule". Rule 17 discusses what a boat which establishes an overlap to leeward from astern can and cannot do. Establishing an overlap from astern is "overtaking" even if that word isn't used.
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Posts: 809 		Post Options Post Options   Quote The Moo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 07 at 10:17pm
Originally posted by HannahJ

Scooby Simon, no overtaking boat rule?


Think about it Hannah. Imagine two boats side by side. One boat is going slightly faster, then the other might speed up, then one might slow down and so on. So in some circumstances it is impossible to establish who is the overtaking boat. I believe the overtaking boat rule was taken out of the racing rules just as I was starting to sail which was in the 1970's.
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Posts: 337 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 07 at 8:17pm

The International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea (i.e. the NON racing rules) still have an "overtaking boat keeps clear", but the racing rules only have clear astern / clear ahead and windward / leeward rules.

 

The windward boat has to keep clear. But windward doesn't need to anticipate the need to keep clear until the overlap exists. Once the overlap is created, they have to keep clear (luff / tack etc.) If the change of course they make while keeping clear (stern swinging) hits leeward boat, then leeward is in the wrong (not giving enough room).
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Posts: 654 		Post Options Post Options   Quote FireballNeil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 07 at 8:12pm
Overtaking boat is possibly the biggest myth ever!
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Posts: 861 		Post Options Post Options   Quote HannahJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 07 at 7:56pm
Scooby Simon, no overtaking boat rule?
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WildWood View Drop Down
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Posts: 136 		Post Options Post Options   Quote WildWood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 07 at 6:10pm

Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Unlucky for the class 4 boat. L can sail her proper course, which may be higher than W's proper course.

and the fact she has approached from astern and to leeward is irrelevant....  I think previously L had to have been clear ahead before she could call W up, but that no longer seems to be the case.  Seems strange, but I guess if that's the rules, then thats the rules.
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Posts: 409 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian29937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 07 at 2:38pm

W has to start trying to give way as soon as the overlap is established as L is only required to "initially give the other boat room to keep clear" under Rule 15. 

If L is passing so close to leeward that W can't luff clear or tack and there is a collision whilst she was trying, W can argue quite correctly that she was trying to keep clear but hadn't been given room to do so.

Ian
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