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Paramedic View Drop Down
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Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Open Meetings
    Posted: 28 Jun 22 at 6:27am
Originally posted by hotpunter

Originally posted by NickA

I think our overheads are too big.
But I just paid £50 for the Bala long distance ( includes a cut to the 3rd party event organisers I suppose).

£50 for both single and double handed entries with a not insignificant % of that fee straight to a third party? 
No problem in paying out for what an event costs when hard working member clubs like Bala get the full return on their efforts. Can’t say I’m enthused by third party ‘organisers’ offering minimal event promotion, novelty tracking and little to the wider sailing group looking to get back travelling to events, outside of a small few at the sharp end. 


Hmmmm I think this is more a "time and place" thing than anything. Sailracer tracking at championships is very good, it's a useful training tool and provides interest away from the event. People do - believe it or not - log on and watch. Its really good for sponsor coverage and helps bring in more money to the event. In my experience in that environment the Sailracer fee easily pays for itself, but without knowing the ins and outs you dont see it.

I can take the point that at a smaller event it's overkill. £50 is a pretty punchy entry fee for a two day event for times gone by. But I cant see it being a hugely profitable exercise for either party in the current climate.


Edited by Paramedic - 28 Jun 22 at 6:42am
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NickA View Drop Down
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Posts: 784 		Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 22 at 6:37am
Agree, I don't think the third party organisation adds anything.

I guess the idea is that people sign up for the whole series .. but in practice most people pick one, or a few, events and do only those. The idea to create a multiclass traveller series is sound, but it hasn't happened.

I'd expected a huge turnout at Bala and it didn't materialise (weather forecast in part). The only thing the third party added was GPS tracking and a website for results etc ... which doesn't work very well ( where are the GPS tracks?). Bala might be better going it alone.

We ran a "sail racer" event at my club once .. still had to provide all the safety cover, ROs, Results officer etc etc. It cost us as much as running any other open and we didn't get many extra entries ... a financial loss for the club and for sail racer.

Bala was a fun event though, due to the location and the club galley mostly. But a lot of packing and driving for essentially a few hours sailing. Jav euros next .. even more travelling, but 16 races and the only chance to race many other Javelins.
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Simon Lovesey View Drop Down
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Posts: 349 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Simon Lovesey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 22 at 6:47am
Originally posted by hotpunter

Originally posted by NickA

I think our overheads are too big.
But I just paid £50 for the Bala long distance ( includes a cut to the 3rd party event organisers I suppose).

£50 for both single and double handed entries with a not insignificant % of that fee straight to a third party? 
No problem in paying out for what an event costs when hard working member clubs like Bala get the full return on their efforts. Can’t say I’m enthused by third party ‘organisers’ offering minimal event promotion, novelty tracking and little to the wider sailing group looking to get back travelling to events, outside of a small few at the sharp end. 


£50 for a two day long distance event is very reasonable,  particularly given the ever increasing fuel costs.  With a five mile course the ribs would have burnt through quite a few gallons.  The tracking played a valuable role in the safety of the event,  providing a location of all boats in real time,  which is very important as difficult for the PRO/safety to see all boats over the whole of the course at all times, particularly when there was poor visibility in the squalls. We also could see when people had capsized on the screen and relay to the safety fleet.   


SailRacer also covered the costs of event photography with Tim Olin
 https://enter.sailracer.org/eventsites//photo_gallery.asp?eventid=222604


Edited by Simon Lovesey - 28 Jun 22 at 7:04am
www.sailracer.org
Online Sailing Results, GPS Tracking & Event Management
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hotpunter View Drop Down
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Posts: 3 		Post Options Post Options   Quote hotpunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 22 at 7:05am
Originally posted by Paramedic

Originally posted by hotpunter

Originally posted by NickA

I think our overheads are too big.
But I just paid £50 for the Bala long distance ( includes a cut to the 3rd party event organisers I suppose).


Hmmmm I think this is more a "time and place" thing than anything. Sailracer tracking at championships is very good, it's a useful training tool and provides interest away from the event. People do - believe it or not - log on and watch. Its really good for sponsor coverage and helps bring in more money to the event. In my experience in that environment the Sailracer fee easily pays for itself, but without knowing the ins and outs you dont see it.

I can take the point that at a smaller event it's overkill. £50 is a pretty punchy entry fee for a two day event for times gone by. But I cant see it being a hugely profitable exercise for either party in the current climate.

At class championships the tracker may have a place but for open mixed events it offers little to the average paying competitor. Keen ones have long used their own means to track their progress by smart watches or similar if training was their goal. Sponsor coverage irrelevant for this event as there were none. Yes it was a small entry with forecasted weather playing a part, but lead in promotion from the ‘promoter’ was dire given the cut they take. Who then watches tracking of an event they don’t know is on? Who enters?

The Bala SC team were excellent and put on another top event as they do. An army of volunteers, a testing course, good race and safety management, everyone well fed and the cheapest bar prices in the land. All sadly top loaded by a third party that possibly made many think twice I would guess.
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Mozzy View Drop Down
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Posts: 209 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 22 at 8:05am
Originally posted by hotpunter

 

Welcome to the forum. Good choice of name  Beer
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 22 at 8:51am
I wonder how sponsorship and the benefits to sponsors stacks up, and whether they really do bring benefits to the competitors.  At recent events I have had do plaster my spars and sails with graffiti in exchange for a load of water bottles that no doubt will feed the eco food chain with plastic granules in a millennia (I refused to take them). 

 I can see Simon’s case for trackers from a safety point of view (if this is really the case) but I am not sure that I would want to have a tracker in order to satisfy the deliverables to the sponsor, in reality sailing is a closed event between the entered competitors and this is part of the enjoyment.  

The moment you add outside money to the equation greed takes over and the competitors enjoyment becomes compromised.

I think in many cases sponsorship is used to satisfy the event organisers delusions of grandeur.
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 22 at 9:11am
Sponsorship which was a few prize donations in return for a little recognition always seemed OK to me.

I questioned the value of tracking ages ago and got shot down as a luddite.  Perhaps in a world where we are have got used to disclosing medical information to go to the cinema, this might be different.
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 22 at 11:26am
If the tracking is 'valued' by people not taking part in the event, let them pay for it, either directly, or by receiving adverts.

Personally, I've found it a gross disappointment for a couple of events I've taken an interest in. It's no substitute for someone publishing a timely narrative of the day's racing.

You add cost to something, don't be surprised if you get less buyers.
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Do Different View Drop Down
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 22 at 11:48am
davidyacht. The voice of reason.  To my mind sailing is an experience activity and not particularly shareable or watchable. 
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The Q View Drop Down
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Posts: 126 		Post Options Post Options   Quote The Q Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 22 at 12:15pm
I know tracking was considered for the 3 Rivers Race, but it would add about £50 per entry. Not fair on the competitors who would have no benefit.
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