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Is Racing Allowed?

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getafix View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is Racing Allowed?
    Posted: 08 Jun 20 at 6:41pm
Racing should be allowed to start again:

Dinghies should be crewed by same household sailors (easy in single handers)

Trolleys can be pulled away once boats are launched and sailing away

Marks can be laid and picked back up by rescue boats (or left out there depending on the water)

One person can be in the race box, the others outside doing flags/recording times/using radio

Rescue boats can be launched by groups, as long as people stay 2m apart, that's going to be OK on all but steep ramps with big boats, perhaps use a winch from a vehicle if you have real issues in recovering or launching with limited numbers?

Drowning will actually kill as will extreme hypothermia, right there and then, at least if you catch Covid you get a chance of a save at a hospital - so launch a rescue boat or two - IMO it's far lower risk than going to your local supermarket or getting involved in a protest march.  The numbers involved in sailing are going to be far less than those caught on video this weekend in London and Bristol.  OK, I accept that in an extremely unlikely scenario someone on the rescue boat may have to do 1st aid and that potentially includes CPR, which would then lead to isolation for all involved until risks can be said to have passed, I believe that's 10 days?

Everyone who wants to race will have to accept their role in doing the duties required to make it possible, as well as safe, for everyone else.  Yes, that means you will overall get less outings, but at least you will be getting out and that's better than sitting typing and wistfully looking out the window  Wink

As for changing rooms and club facilities most can change in the car or hold a towel around your waist - there are these things called cool boxes you can keep cold drinks (aka beers) in for afterwards and that leaves changing facilities indoors free for people who HAVE to use them, as there won't be so many people about and keeping 2m apart will be well possible



Edited by getafix - 08 Jun 20 at 6:44pm
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polc1410 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote polc1410 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 20 at 9:17pm
Originally posted by H2

Folks, do we imagine that one of these days some Government Minister is going to stand at those snazzy lecturns and utter the sentence "from the 15th its fine for people to race in their dinghy's in groups of more than six so long as they use a 3-2-1 start sequence and agree to not sail by the lee so as to minimise port-starboard infections when on a run" or something as specific and totally unexpected?

Or are we going to have to use our common sense if we want to go racing again? The plan is to enjoy help stop this virus, right?
No. They wont  specifically say racing is fine in a presser (unless they've run out of announcements!).  The RYA may agree back of house.  But more likely is the government provides sufficient clarity for ANY SPORTS.  Can the local village football team play?  Thats 22 people in closer proximity for longer than on a boat.  If so that is your permission to race more than 6 boats.

You can easily put a social distancing requiremnet in your SIs.  But I still doubt its necessary.  The advice is >2m is fine. >1m for 15minutes is fine. <1m for 1minute is fine unless doing something like personal care.  So walking past someone browsing a shelf in a shop is fine.  Its not zero risk, but its low risk.  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote polc1410 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 20 at 9:45pm
Originally posted by getafix

Racing should be allowed to start again:
With all due respect, that isn't the question. The question is "is it ALLOWED"

Originally posted by getafix

Dinghies should be crewed by same household sailors (easy in single handers)
No-one is disputing that.

Originally posted by getafix

Trolleys can be pulled away once boats are launched and sailing away
So thats your first risk. You are now handling something someone else handled.

Originally posted by getafix

 
Marks can be laid and picked back up by rescue boats (or left out there depending on the water)
Fixed marks are fine. World Sailing have some virtual mark rules too (not really for dinghy sailing). 
Mark laying single handed on a RIB is not impossible, but can be hard work. Depends on size of marks, weight of the weight, anchor, sea conditions etc.

Originally posted by getafix

 
One person can be in the race box, the others outside doing flags/recording times/using radio
Yes. See no problem with that for club racing.  Once you get to major events you need more bodies (more eyes)

Originally posted by getafix

 
Rescue boats can be launched by groups, as long as people stay 2m apart, that's going to be OK on all but steep ramps with big boats, perhaps use a winch from a vehicle if you have real issues in recovering or launching with limited numbers?
Launching a RIB can be done single handed if necessary.  Plenty of single owners of RIBs manage it.  Most RIBs are 2m wide.  If you need bodies involved - one each side will be spaced.

Its not launching that causes the concern.  It is manning the RIB.  A 5m RIB with a central console makes distancing difficult.  

Originally posted by getafix

 
Drowning will actually kill as will extreme hypothermia, right there and then, at least if you catch Covid you get a chance of a save at a hospital - so launch a rescue boat or two - IMO it's far lower risk than going to your local supermarket or getting involved in a protest march.  The numbers involved in sailing are going to be far less than those caught on video this weekend in London and Bristol.  
I don't disagree.  There are plenty of clubs who pay rescue staff. Are they choosing to participate?
We allowed people to choose to not go to the pub the weekend before lockdown - the majority chose to go.  The risk isn't the fit sailor. Its the elderly relative they might infect. The ITU bed they occupy that means the cancer patient can't be treated.  I don't understand the protests.  Supermarkets - are necessary to buy food to survive. I've yet to find someone who has died because they couldn't race.

Originally posted by getafix

 
OK, I accept that in an extremely unlikely scenario someone on the rescue boat may have to do 1st aid and that potentially includes CPR, which would then lead to isolation for all involved until risks can be said to have passed, I believe that's 10 days?
It is a low risk that it will be needed, but is exactly the reason you are wanting safety cover.
It is 14 days of isolation.  Why would you think it 10, but think qualified to post an opinion?
I think isolation would only be required IF the person was covid +ve (or perhaps while you await an answer).  CPR is an AGP - it is HIGH RISK for transmission.

Originally posted by getafix

 
As for changing rooms and club facilities most can change in the car or hold a towel around your waist - there are these things called cool boxes you can keep cold drinks (aka beers) in for afterwards and that leaves changing facilities indoors free for people who HAVE to use them, as there won't be so many people about and keeping 2m apart will be well possible

Ensuring you aren't meeting more than 6 people of course...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote marwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 20 at 4:45am
Originally posted by Mozzy

I think the main thing is the 2m rule for different households in race boxes and patrol boats. If you can avoid this then there is nothing that stops competitive sailing. 

There's a small issue with the 'meet with one other person from another household' and soon to be 'up to six people'. But it's unclear what constitutes 'meeting'. 

For example, I can go to the park to explicitly meet (2m apart) a friend, or go for a walk etc. Obviously there might be many people at the park also walking or jogging or whatever. But, it's fine as you're not there to 'meet' them. 

Are other boats at a sailing club like other joggers in a park? Or are they implicitly part of the same gathering? At what point do people in the same place for the same reason become part of the same gathering? It's all a bit grey. 

There would be a case that as soon as you publish official start time or an official event, then everyone participating is part of a singular gathering.

Well said! Agree with it.

The reality is, if you're outdoors, and well spaced, the transmission risk is low, and whether there are 20 people there out of coincidence or through design makes little difference. However, limiting gatherings to 2 (or soon to be 6) does make it a lot easier for police to break things up before groups become large and inhibitions are removed and the 2m rule goes out of the window. 

I don't recall club racing ever slowly morphing in to a situation where 50 people are hugging and kissing... although a FED week party is another matter!

On the other hand, an informal race to a buoy and back with whoever happens to be on the water is plenty enough for me. I've long been of the opinion that NoR, SI's, flags and even results don't add much to my club racing experience and I've not missed them on the last couple outings at HISC. It's not a area I particularly want the club to push the rules on. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris_H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 20 at 10:23am
Interested to hear from HISC about how they ran, and justified, despite the rules, the Corona Cup over the weekend. I see quite a bit of criticism on the www ....  I dont take a view one way or another - just curious how they justified it?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 20 at 4:03pm
Simple, they concluded that a race wasn't a gathering. 

They stopped any gatherings on shore no brief, no sign on. Single household crews and duty team. 

The law is written to give the police the power to break up gatherings such as house parties, BBQs, raves, etc. 

Of course, there will always be people more interested in pointing fingers than the actual specifics of the situation. 

When you've got lines of people queuing up outside primark the criticism of a club race is ridiculous.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 20 at 4:14pm
Well done HISC - I totally agree with the 6-person interpretation and I am really delighted to see this go ahead. Perhaps calling it the "Corona Cup" was a bit of a dumb idea with hindsight and was always going to get under people's skin in a way that is not helpful.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris_H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 20 at 6:16pm
Calling it the Corona Cup was definitely a ‘foot in mouth’ decision. Corona Memorial Cup maybe...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris_H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 20 at 6:17pm
I am sure clubs who still cannot sail will look on in amazement...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 20 at 7:40pm
Well we will know soon enough what the 'view from on high' is given that the Foxer Nationals are going ahead this weekend at Hamble - published NoR, SIs - so it is certainly an 'organised event' and given that  a fair number of people from the RYA will be there, this must give it all the final seal of approval.

It is a bit like the argument that a Special Adviser followed his instincts, driven the length of the country and that has made everything now okay. The fact that the Foxer event is going ahead, almost in the RYA's back yard and with people in RYA logo'd sailing gear present will now make it well nigh impossible to say any different, so they might as well just step back and let people get on with it.

Others, who have been  patiently waiting for someone to say that it is now okay may have a different view, as may the non sailing community (point taken - there isn't many of those in Hamble) and if the heated focus that is bubbling up on Hayling is anything to go, by the story of the Corona Cup  may yet have some more laps to do before the story dies - which it shows no signs of yet!

Corona Cup??? How thought that one up? Whoever it was, there has to be openings for him in Westminster with a sensitivity like that!

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