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    Posted: 18 Oct 10 at 12:27pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

Perhaps in a handicap fleet, the closest parallel to allowing multiple rigs would be with yachts?
 
In IRC for example, you get a rating cert based on the biggest sails. If you choose to change down to a smaller rig to suit the conditions, you keep the same handicap.
It's different to the Laser/4.7/Rooster 8.? model, but equally valid.
So why not race them all level and encourage people to have two or three sails and use the one they choose for each race?
Maybe as the class grows it will be worth splitting the fleet, but if people are happy as it is, people outside the class, particularly RO's should be happy to accept it as one class with one PY.
 
Other examples: Using a small kite for a windy day on a 505
'Cruising' rig on an Enterprise- these used to appear at the Southport 24hrs, with no handicap involved, to be changed down to in the event of lots of breeze.
 
Because nobody in a 7.4 rig may never be able to get near the performance of a 10.4 and that's not fair either!
Timg


Edited by timg - 18 Oct 10 at 12:29pm
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 10 at 12:29pm
I don't get it? It can't be more simple, if it's windy you use the small sail rather than not going sailing, yes it will need a handicap the 8.4 has a separate handicap, so I guess the 7.4 will.

 If it's light you use the main rig.

 I can't imagine many will go for all three (other than me of course).

When I sign on to race, I indicate the rig and the handicap I shall be using, so far the only one they take issue with is the 10.2 when I win with it, which is not often, but if they moan, I take about as much notice as I do when they rush around saying oh GRF didn't do very well he came last that time, should we give him a better handicap, which has happened guess how many times in my entire sailing career..?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 10 at 12:38pm
Hi Tim,

How you doing ? Looked like a cracking event you guys had down in Valencia. Some serious talent sailing to !

I agree with you totally.

At the clubs where I sail we can pretty much use the Laser as a direct comparison as it has three sail size variants.

For club racing we can't 'chop and change' between rigs and score results in the same series. The guys who sail Laser Full Rig and Laser Radial (and girls who sail Laser Radial and Laser 4.7) score a separate set of results for each sail size. The OOD doesn't do this on visual recognition - the category is taken from the signing on sheet so to some degree relies on the sailor to be honest - although your own class mates would pretty quickly spot this !

Interestingly the Solo sailors at our club have a smaller high wind sail, which they can use without restriction if they wish - I understand they don't do this because the small sail badly upsets the balance of the boat. Most of the sailors also have a flatter high wind full size sail they can use.

I understand the D-one now has a smaller sail option. How are you guys dealing with that in terms of results etc. ?

Cheers

Chris
Not now Kato (you fewl) !

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Ex - Vortex Assymetric 1090 and 1208
Ex - 49er NZL142 (crew)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 10 at 12:41pm
Sorry I forgot the Laser Rooster 8.1 - thats 4 variants for the Laser - no wonder its so damn popular !!!
Not now Kato (you fewl) !

RS100 421 (8.4)
Ex - Vortex Assymetric 1090 and 1208
Ex - 49er NZL142 (crew)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Merlinboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 10 at 12:49pm
I think you are missing my point slightly.  If the boat is to have interchangeable rigs, then thats great!  Is a big tick in the box for a lot of people. But the class needs 1 PY not 3.  If each rig size is to be a different class of boat like the laser then the rigs need to be identifiable and not interchangeable between races in a series. 
Whats stopping someone changing rig sizes at say the tiger trophy?  Its very hard to police and definitely not in the spirit of the competition but it could happen.
RS400atC  you can't really swap to the old rules Kite on a 5o5 as the halyard take off is a metre further up the mast.  You could use a different cut, but i don't see the point really as the kite is manageable in just about anything.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 10 at 12:49pm
Hi Chris,
 
That all sounds about right.
I just felt, should the need arise, for whatever reason, it maybe a good idea to be able to tell visually the difference.
As you say, and I agree, you can't tell from the sailors stature what rig he sails.
 
Please excuse me but I don't know how to create a link to the D-One thread where Jimbo asked the same questions, so here goes....
 
(quoted Rodney from D-One thread)
"The new rig D-Ones will race as a separate class and will use a different PY in handicap racing so there is no option for switching the rig, either in a regatta or over a series.  The helms using this rig under 59 Kilos will be able to use the wings in the outboard position.  In practice, in the early days, we can see the two classes sometimes sharing the start line, racing together, but as different classes and with different results. Kite halyard is the same for both rigs."
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote CaptainSlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 10 at 1:08pm
This is why I believe the D1 will prosper and the 100 struggle should the 100 be interchangable with rigs during series.
 
I looked at buying a 100 this year but would not of got upto speed in time for the nats so decided against it, more than likely I will purchase a single handed spinnaker boat at some point in the near future but my choice currently would be the D1. It seems the D1 as a class knows where it is heading and the 100 boys are making it up as they go along.
 
I personally do not believe people like GRF (only in his views) are good for a green field class.
 
Only my view...........
 
CS
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Nick Peters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 10 at 1:08pm
Tim - that could almost have been written by me for the RS100 a year ago. The RS100 rules do not allow for swapping within a regatta or series either. So you are heading for exactly the same issue, are you not?
 
The added complication for all concerned is that there seems less difference between 8.4 and 10.2 over the course of varied sailing than one would have thought? Maybe you will find this for the D-One small rig - in a breeze it will almost certainly be faster for a given weight!
 
Time will sort this out - maybe they will be on one handicap? If that is how it goes then we will have created a very effective form of weight equalisation! For both our classes.
 
What is it you have a problem with in the short term?
 
 
Nick


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Nick Peters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 10 at 1:19pm
Sorry, Captainslow, our mails crossed, but you can see, RS100 Class does not allow for swapping rigs within a regatta or series:
 
Whether thay end up with the same handicap or not depends on clubs and RYA. and the same applies to the D-One's new rig.
 
"Sounding as though we are making it up as we go along" is hardly fair unless you misinterprate rantings on a forum! Easily done...!
 
 
Nick


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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 10 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by CaptainSlow


 
I personally do not believe people like GRF (only in his views) are good for a green field class.
 
Only my view...........
 
CS

Well if you want to have a view, first you have to put your money where your mouth/view is don't you?

Then you and the other D1 sailor can have a perfect time together each on his own rig not competing with each other...

And my view, doesn't count any more or less than any of the others at the AGM where they were talking about it, however it does work in the windsurfing environment and I can't for the life of me see why folk are so close minded, it's only another category/class trophy.

Those who want to race according to the status quo, one rig one cup one event are catered for already.

This 'Open Class" is only a suggestion.

Better that surely than a class that caters for only one body type and/or is sold only because it's a handicap bandit. 

What is wrong with you people?
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