RS400 proposed changes

Originally posted by JimC Originally posted by timg what happen if your "purchase" turns out to be a really good investment, over the last, say 10 years, and through no fault of your own, the second hand value stays bouyant etc? You count yourself as very lucky, and think, yipee, I can afford to spend a bit more on the next boat:-) Originally posted by timg What causes the bottom to fall out of classes? What causes a mass exodus? Whose duty is it to keep an eye on it and try and pre-empt the next crash. All these things are out of anyone's control, which is exactly why thinking of it as in investment messes your mind up. Budget what you can afford, regard anything you get back as a bonus and you'll be a much happier sailor. And whatever you do never count up what sailing actually costs you if you have a partner of any kind, whether they currently sail or not!

Edited by timg - 17 Oct 10 at 8:59pm

Originally posted by timg One could argue that the whole reason it has been a "bonus" (jimc) for 17 years is because it's a strict "one design" with loads of rules to follow

But the rather long list of failed and outdated strict one designs with loads of rules that are worth **** all after 17 years because the class collapsed suggests there might be rather more to the story than that. 20 year old Merlins and Cherubs have kept their value far better than 20 year old Isos, Buzzes or 5 Tonners...

Originally posted by blaze720 Within the existing (remaining?) owners there will also be those who want NO CHANGE .... EVER – many of them bought into the class late in the day on the basis that it was by then cheap and they would never ever have to spend a few quid on the boat aside very occasional sail replacement.    They naturally want to protect their ‘investment’ now .... What they do not always realise is that long term decline – the result of ignoring the rest of the world and what is happening – will stuff their value anyway.  In SMOD classes the manufacturer makes the ultimate decision on ‘what’ and ‘when’ – you buy into a formula if you like that maintains the class.  Some classes are controlled completely by the CA but SMODS are controlled by the maker – but generally with collaborative positive input from the CA.  You pays yer money and makes your choice.  If you don’t value the clear direction or leadership of a proactive builder then with respect you should sell and migrate to one that suits you better.

I'm certainly not saying that you and RS aren't doing your job very well, but one can definitely take issue with the line that SMOD saillors have to accept that manufacturers can change stuff.  Many SMOD manufacturers specifically market their boats on the basis that they are all the same and if you buy one, it will remain competitive.

If a person buys into a class because the seller says that the boats are all equally competitive and also says, explicitly or implicitly, that there are no changes forecast, then that person surely has the legal and (more importantly) moral rights to hold the builder to their claims.

While some SMODs (like the Blaze) do renovate and thrive, surely there are just as many that renovate and dwindle? The Byte isn't doing very well, the 49er's been re-rigged and seems to have slumped, the Boss got a bigger kite and jib (IIRC) and died before the Buzz and ISO, the Tasar is going gangbusters down here (98 at the nationals, 100+ locals at the Masters Games) but not so in the UK, the Hurricane 5.9 XS is attracting smaller fleets than the "old" Hurri 5.9, and the biggest SMOD fleets belong to classes that have had few changes (Toppers, Radials, 200s, maybe the Squib, etc).

From the outside there doesn't seem to be much evidence that renovation=revitalisation all the time.

None of this is saying that RS isn't doing damn well - as you say, SMODs are doing very well for sailing these days.

 

Originally posted by getafix ....I'd say the depreciation on MR's or Cherubs is just as steep as other classes, OD or not, if not steeper when taking into account the fact you can sink ~10k+ into a 'dud' in a development class which is subsequently very hard to get rid of....

I'm too heavy to comment on Cherubs, let alone sail on one!

It's been useful to hear opinions from outside the class, it seems that more 'non-400' people are in favour of us changing.

Funy undrstand.  However if you want to expand active support for any established class you have to look beyond the often 'silent majority' that remain today  as by defination many are happy with the staus quo.  They can stiffle ANY (necessary) change if not carefully consulted and managed.

Ask the ones who have tried but then got something else and the ones who just 'don't fancy it'.  You do not have to then change but these other groupings are just as vital if you want to grow or reestablish momentum.  If you could attract back just 25% of those who have owned one in the past and you would need to build new hulls by the hundred - they and their views are therefore critical imho.

Mike L.