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    Posted: 24 May 07 at 10:54am

Hi,

Does anybody know anything about the catamaran handicap formula and whether it could be applied to a trimaran?

Thanks,
Pascal



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Scooby_simon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 07 at 11:24am

Pascal,

 

The SCHRS rule will deal with this; However, we do not have any factors to try and differentiate Cats from Tri's - however, I'd think we would get fairly close to an appropiate handicap and would welcome your feedback on the numbers generated.  Go to www.schrs.com and download the calculation routine and have a play around.  Please feel free to contact me for any guidance.

 

Cheers

Simon

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pascal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 07 at 11:59am

Thanks Simon. I've downloaded the calculation tool and tried with approximate measurements and this is what I got (I will have to go back to the manufacturer to get the detailed measurements).The minimum weight (WS) excludes crew weight, right?

What do you think? How does that compare with the rating of a catamaran of similar size (4.18m)?

Regards,
Pascal

 Small Catamaran Handicap Rating System (SCHRS)

Catamaran design type Astus 14.1
Indication of SCHRS rating 1.297

Further Details

Measurements and Inputs

Number of crew 1
Number of trapeze, NUMTRAP 0
Minimum weight of the catamaran in sailing condition, WS 80 kg
Maximum overall length, AL 4.180 m
Maximum waterline length, WL 4.180 m
Maximum overall beam, BEAM 2.500 m
Maximum authorised mainsail area, CM 8.000 m2
Maximum vertical projection of the luff of the mainsail, VLM 5.000 m
Maximum authorised jib area, CJ 0.000 m2
Maximum vertical projection of the luff of the jib, VLJ 0.000 m
Maximum authorised spinnaker area, CSPI 7.000 m2
Maximum authorised board area, CB 0.160 m2
Maximum board depth below the hulls, VLB 0.800 m

Rated Measurements

Rated length, L 4.180 m
Rated weight, W 155 kg
Rated sail area, A 7.093 m2
Main aspect ratio, XM 3.125
Jib aspect ratio, XJ 0.000
Main Efficiency, ME 79.912%
Jib Efficiency, JE 40.100%

Intermediate Calculations

ZM2 3.5886
DLR 2.1223
XC4 1.1942
XC2 -2.8847
XC -2.1516
VT/VB 1.7359

Corrections and Penalties

Board Correction, BC 4.0291
Board aspect ratio, XB 4.0000

Power Factor

HMOM 13.4858
RMOM 193.7500
Power Factor, POWFAC 14.3669

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Post Options Post Options   Quote mrzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 07 at 12:14pm
One comment - by sitting on the windward float, wouldn't you be creating a similar righting force to a person on a trapeze?




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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 07 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by Pascal

Thanks Simon. I've downloaded the calculation tool and tried with approximate measurements and this is what I got (I will have to go back to the manufacturer to get the detailed measurements).The minimum weight (WS) excludes crew weight, right?

What do you think? How does that compare with the rating of a catamaran of similar size (4.18m)?

Regards,
Pascal

 Small Catamaran Handicap Rating System (SCHRS)

Catamaran design type Astus 14.1
Indication of SCHRS rating 1.297

Further Details

Measurements and Inputs

Number of crew 1
Number of trapeze, NUMTRAP 0
Minimum weight of the catamaran in sailing condition, WS 80 kg
Maximum overall length, AL 4.180 m
Maximum waterline length, WL 4.180 m
Maximum overall beam, BEAM 2.500 m
Maximum authorised mainsail area, CM 8.000 m2
Maximum vertical projection of the luff of the mainsail, VLM 5.000 m
Maximum authorised jib area, CJ 0.000 m2
Maximum vertical projection of the luff of the jib, VLJ 0.000 m
Maximum authorised spinnaker area, CSPI 7.000 m2
Maximum authorised board area, CB 0.160 m2
Maximum board depth below the hulls, VLB 0.800 m

Rated Measurements

Rated length, L 4.180 m
Rated weight, W 155 kg
Rated sail area, A 7.093 m2
Main aspect ratio, XM 3.125
Jib aspect ratio, XJ 0.000
Main Efficiency, ME 79.912%
Jib Efficiency, JE 40.100%

Intermediate Calculations

ZM2 3.5886
DLR 2.1223
XC4 1.1942
XC2 -2.8847
XC -2.1516
VT/VB 1.7359

Corrections and Penalties

Board Correction, BC 4.0291
Board aspect ratio, XB 4.0000

Power Factor

HMOM 13.4858
RMOM 193.7500
Power Factor, POWFAC 14.3669

Yes, WS is excluding crew. 

Pascal do you really have an 8sqm Spi ?

Does not sout too far out as it's small (but light).

Do you have a link to a website with details.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pascal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 07 at 12:22pm

One comment - by sitting on the windward float, wouldn't you be creating a similar righting force to a person on a trapeze?

You can't really sit on the windward float, just on the trampoline. I guess doing so would be equivalent to sitting on the trampoline next to the windward float on a catamaran.

On a catamaran with a trapeze the righting force is higher as you're standing outside the boat.

Regards,
Pascal



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pascal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 07 at 12:30pm

Pascal do you really have an 8sqm Spi ?

Does not sout too far out as it's small (but light).

Do you have a link to a website with details.

Hi Simon,

It's not actually a spi but a gennaker. Not sure if it make a difference. It's 7 sqm.

The web site for the Astus 14.1 is http://www.exaqua.co.uk/astus141.php

Regards,
Pascal



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Post Options Post Options   Quote mrzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 07 at 12:33pm
I think you are probably right pascal - here's another comment - (and I'm not an engineer to please feel free to correct me)

the pivot point on a trimaran would be different to that of a cat and in fact would move accoridng to the forces on the boat. The pivot point on a cat is around the leeward float, but the pivot point on a trimaran would be similar to a monohull - around the main hull when upright, and then would move towards the leeward float as pressure on it increases...

this would mean that using the cat handicap would disadvantage you in lighter winds as you will essentially be sailing a monohull with a bit of extra stability...

tricky - what do others think...?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 07 at 1:06pm

Originally posted by mrzen

I think you are probably right pascal - here's another comment - (and I'm not an engineer to please feel free to correct me)

the pivot point on a trimaran would be different to that of a cat and in fact would move accoridng to the forces on the boat. The pivot point on a cat is around the leeward float, but the pivot point on a trimaran would be similar to a monohull - around the main hull when upright, and then would move towards the leeward float as pressure on it increases...

this would mean that using the cat handicap would disadvantage you in lighter winds as you will essentially be sailing a monohull with a bit of extra stability...

tricky - what do others think...?

 

We (The SCHRS group) do not have any meaningful data for Tri's

As far as things go, some tri's fly 2 hulls when required.  Also, The SCHRS rule takes into account trapezing crew as well as non-trapezing crew.

 

Generally you can build a stiffer tri and than cat as the mast is on a hull, and hot bouncing around on the front beam.

 

Also, looking at the website, it looks like that hull might plane.  I cannot guarantee that SCHRS will come up with the right values (as stated we hve no real data on them) but it will be better than nothing at all



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Post Options Post Options   Quote English Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 07 at 1:26pm

Well I am an engineer. But mostly I just bluff. This may be one of those occasions.

Doesn't it depend  on how the plane of the hulls is arranged? Most tris have their floats slightly higher than the centre hull so that only one is in the water at one time. But because the rig is on the centre hull any increase in wind strength will depress the leeward float rather than lifting the centre hull. So the drag increases with the wind

You also have the problem of tacking. It's hard enough to get two long straight lines to turn a circle, let alone three. On cats you keep the weight on the "inside" hull as far as possible to help the outside one (which has further to go) skim across the water. At least that's the theory I work to.

I sail under the auspices of the Irish Multihull Association. I have no idea what would happen if someone turned up anything other than a cat but in theory it's possible. Incidentally, how would foiling tris such a the TriWave and the Rave fit into the handicapping equation. And if lifting foils take such craft outside the remit of SCHRS then what about stabilising foils such as on F16 rudders?

Over to you Scooby!

English Dave
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