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Advantage of boom end sheeting?

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=994
Printed Date: 14 Aug 25 at 8:34pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Advantage of boom end sheeting?
Posted By: tonyw3026
Subject: Advantage of boom end sheeting?
Date Posted: 06 Sep 05 at 11:04pm

What is the advantage of using a bridle off the transom and leading along the boom to a single block on the centreboard case, compared with a 4:1 tackle in the centre of the boom.

Also how does the purchase of the boom end system compare with 4:1 in the centre? If the final block was on the transom it would be 2:1 which is equivalent to 4:1 in the middle, but how does the purchase compare when the final block is on the centreboard?

 




Replies:
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 06 Sep 05 at 11:28pm

You can center the boom easier with the transom sheeting.

Sheet loads are higher but you get more control (assuming you don't have a 2:1 at the end).

Bit of a swine on a 2 sail reach.

Cheaper to do.

Must taper the bridel so the split end can go inside the block.



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Posted By: a_stevo
Date Posted: 07 Sep 05 at 12:28am

endboom, and sheeting off the boom clears up the middle of the boat, allows you to sheet right into the middle, typically dosent let you pull leech tension with the sheet though.

midboom, allows you to give the boom a lick mid gybe, and pull leech tension, but at the expense of space and boom in the middle,



Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 07 Sep 05 at 7:41am

Originally posted by Guest#260

You can center the boom easier with the transom sheeting.

Yes: a hoop also does the same, in classes that allow it.



Posted By: Iain C
Date Posted: 07 Sep 05 at 9:27am

Tony

What boat are you talking about as there are different ways to get the extra purchase depending on class.  RS200s will have the extra block on the bridle aft and alter the bridle length depending on rake, where a Fireball will have the extra "granny" block on the centreboard case.  This is assuming you still have a jammer on teh case and are not going Enterprise/Mirror style.

The gybing problem can be sorted with a gybing strop, and the 2 sail issue can be sorted by just taking the right fall of teh sheet straight from the boom, as Ben Ainslie does in the Finn.

Personally I think hoops are a bad idea (unless it has a traveller like a Merlin) as you can't centre the main in the light stuff without getting loads of s-l-o-w leech tension.  A properly set up bridle system (split end mainsheet or aft block) should allow you to do this fine.



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RS700 GBR922 "Wirespeed"
Fireball GBR14474 "Eleven Parsecs"
Enterprise GBR21970
Bavaria 32 GBR4755L "Adastra"


Posted By: Ian99
Date Posted: 07 Sep 05 at 10:21am
Originally posted by Iain C

The gybing problem can be sorted with a gybing strop, and the 2 sail issue can be sorted by just taking the right fall of teh sheet straight from the boom, as Ben Ainslie does in the Finn.

The "gybing problem" can also be sorted with correct sailing technique. I'm amazed by the number of people you see heaving the boom over in a gybe, only to capsize when the boom really crashes over. Best way to learn the correct technique is to sail a Laser in a decent breeze a few times .... with a useless ruddder and no gybing handle, you soon find out how to gybe without losing control



Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 07 Sep 05 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by Ian99

Originally posted by Iain C

The gybing problem can be sorted with a gybing strop, and the 2 sail issue can be sorted by just taking the right fall of teh sheet straight from the boom, as Ben Ainslie does in the Finn.

The "gybing problem" can also be sorted with correct sailing technique. I'm amazed by the number of people you see heaving the boom over in a gybe, only to capsize when the boom really crashes over. Best way to learn the correct technique is to sail a Laser in a decent breeze a few times .... with a useless ruddder and no gybing handle, you soon find out how to gybe without losing control

Yeah, but the Laser gybing style wont translate to a 3 sail boat. Gybing handle very useful on many boats.



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Posted By: Cheeky
Date Posted: 07 Sep 05 at 3:21pm
Originally posted by a_stevo

typically dosent let you pull
leech tension with the sheet though.


,



This actually one of the main reasons you go for
boom end sheeting with a split main sheet bridle. As
it allows you to pull ON leech tension. Also the
reason that the crew sheets up wind in skiffs,
becasue it is quite physically demanding to pull in
big roach sails and keep enough on the leech. and
in the gusts you can just easy the leach tension and
let the leech twist with out without loosing much high
through the boom dropping off the leeward. and
theres room for movment in the middle of the boat.

Gybing; just make sure you get the boom in before
you go into the gybe so it comes across earlier in the
gybe and doest create a load of momentum. I you
leave it out the gybe happens at the end of a big turn.
and comes across very quick. if you bing it into the
boat first the turn is less to get the boom across and
easyer to handle.


Posted By: Iain C
Date Posted: 07 Sep 05 at 4:28pm

 

[/QUOTE]


Gybing; just make sure you get the boom in before
you go into the gybe so it comes across earlier in the
gybe and doest create a load of momentum. I you
leave it out the gybe happens at the end of a big turn.
and comes across very quick. if you bing it into the
boat first the turn is less to get the boom across and
easyer to handle.[/QUOTE]

Yikes!!!! This may work in yachts but always up with everything going green in any dinghy I have sailed

I prefer a decent gybing handle on something like a Fireball (obviously not an option on a Cherub or similar skiff (and let's not get back into the Cherub is not a skiff debate, it is, I've put it right at the end of the skiff wall and very high up so no-one can reach it) most importantly coupled with a well timed burst of "opposite lock" on the tiller just after the boom crosses the centreline. 

In big breeze if your boom is anywhere near the centreline whilst being sheeted in you will swim. 

 

 



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RS700 GBR922 "Wirespeed"
Fireball GBR14474 "Eleven Parsecs"
Enterprise GBR21970
Bavaria 32 GBR4755L "Adastra"


Posted By: Cheeky
Date Posted: 07 Sep 05 at 4:46pm
iain in de Cherub ( like you sail ) and other fast skiffs
you have loads of apparent and your boom is in the
middle of the boat ( or should be ) if you leave it out
over the gunwale thats when it gets very messy in de
gybe. keep it in and the gybes are sweet. this isn't
the same for slow boats obviously. but even in a
laser it help to get the boom in a little.


Posted By: Cheeky
Date Posted: 07 Sep 05 at 4:50pm
form how you descibe your tiller movments on the
cherub it sounds like you are putting in to much
rudder to get the boom across because the boom is
a long way out. less rudder and boom inside the
gunwale. and you won't have to correct as much
coming out of the gybe.


Posted By: Ian99
Date Posted: 07 Sep 05 at 4:55pm

The "yacht" technique is the correct way for a dinghy as well, the only difference being that it has to be pulled in and released a lot faster in dinghies (less than about 1 second for the whole action) otherwise the boat slows down and you capsize.

Provided you have got a sensible amount of purchase on a mainsheet (i.e. not too much), an armful going in and out combined with a small amount of rudder movement at the right moment does the trick. I've never used a gybing handle on any boat I've sailed (Fireball, Laser, B14, Wayfarer, Miracle, GP14, Lark and a few more) and have capsized very few times, all of which were caused by nosediving or an out of control spinnaker.

Used correctly, the gybing handle will have the same effect, but having a handle that is easy to grip encourages you to attempt to haul the sail across before it wants to.



Posted By: HannahJ
Date Posted: 07 Sep 05 at 6:41pm
I found when sailing a laser, i had to pull the main in all the way when gybing simply so that the horse wouldn't catch on the aft corner of the boat... i just let it out very quickly after the gybe.

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MIRROR 64799 "Dolphin"
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist hopes it will change; the realist adjusts the sail


Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 07 Sep 05 at 9:47pm
Originally posted by HannahJ

I found when sailing a laser, i had to pull the main in all the way when gybing simply so that the horse wouldn't catch on the aft corner of the boat... i just let it out very quickly after the gybe.


Its been a while since ive sailed one but I seem to remember when I was racing radials properly the technique was simply to carve into the turn holding the main just above the block. As the sail looks like its begining to twitch you give a huge single pull of the main to right above your head. You can then cross the boat with the main still a 'pulls length' in and release it as you need to to cushion the boom as it hits the new side. If you watch the top laser sailers they never have the problem, its just about the timing.


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Posted By: Iain C
Date Posted: 08 Sep 05 at 9:05am

Originally posted by Cheeky

iain in de Cherub ( like you sail ) and other fast skiffs
you have loads of apparent and your boom is in the
middle of the boat ( or should be ) if you leave it out
over the gunwale thats when it gets very messy in de
gybe. keep it in and the gybes are sweet. this isn't
the same for slow boats obviously. but even in a
laser it help to get the boom in a little.

You're quite right Cheeky, I am talking here about big breeze in a boat like a Fireball, not a real apparent wind boat, gybing my Cherub is totally different (something like close eyes and hope for the best!!).  "Opposite lock" is an over-exaggeration, it's just a quick flick of the tiller by a few degrees just to stop the boat screwing up higher than you'd like on the new gybe.  Can't speak for Lasers though as I have never really sailed one.

In lighter breeze the crew should throw the boom over with the kicker whilst the helm tries to keep the kite flying through the gybe...not always the easiest thing to do though, especially with a single ended pole!!



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RS700 GBR922 "Wirespeed"
Fireball GBR14474 "Eleven Parsecs"
Enterprise GBR21970
Bavaria 32 GBR4755L "Adastra"


Posted By: stuarthop
Date Posted: 08 Sep 05 at 11:48am
with the laser if you throw your shoulders out the boat nice and hard as you enter the gybe you only have to tug half an armfull of sheet to stop the main catching

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Posted By: a_stevo
Date Posted: 08 Sep 05 at 12:43pm

with lasers you just grap the sheet below the boom as it goes through, never have a problem really, just give it a solid pull as it goes across

 



Posted By: KnightMare
Date Posted: 08 Sep 05 at 7:27pm
In my experience you should never attempt a gybe in a breze with the tiller anywhere other than centered. Bareaway untill the main starts twitching and then center the tiller as you do this it will give the main the kick it needs to start changin sides also as it moves pull a bit of main in so that you can cushion the boom as it 'hits' the other side

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http://theramblingsofmyinnergeek.blogspot.com/


Posted By: Granite
Date Posted: 09 Sep 05 at 1:34pm
The gybing strop is also good for getting reluctant battens to pop.

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If it doesn't break it's too heavy; if it does it wasn't built right



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