Race Management: Orange Flags on Start Boats

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Orange Flags on Start Boats

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Race Management
Forum Discription: For race officers and competiors to discuss the topic
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8910
Printed Date: 12 Aug 25 at 9:53pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com

Topic: Orange Flags on Start Boats

Posted By: Granite
Subject: Orange Flags on Start Boats
Date Posted: 12 Jan 12 at 2:05pm

I have been to a few events where the RC boat puts up an orange flag as a sort of pre-warning signal. This seems to be specified in the sailing instructions, as I can't find anything in the RRS about it.

I am looking at our club racing Sailing Instructions for next year and was wondering about introducing an orange flag to give a bit more warning that racing was about to start.

What do people think about this, and is there a standard text to use in the sailing instructions?

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If it doesn't break it's too heavy; if it does it wasn't built right

Replies:

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 12 Jan 12 at 2:26pm

Orange flag = com boat on station for start and marks the com boat end of the start line.

Blue flag = com boat on station for finish and marks the com boat end of the finish line.

thats how we use them anyway. If you google "committee boat orange blue flag" you should be able to see how it fits into other clubs SI's.

Posted By: Ian29937
Date Posted: 12 Jan 12 at 2:47pm

Interestingly the blue flag is in the signals section at the beginning of the RRS but not the orange. I always assumed they were both there.

Doh!

Posted By: A Seabadger
Date Posted: 12 Jan 12 at 3:52pm

At our club the orange Flag on the committee boat signals that the boat is on station ready to start. However we have Race Officers of varying standards, and even those who should know better, either forget to fly the flag or have it streaming as the committee boat heads off down the lake to lay a start line. When it works it's great. A warning signal that things are ready to go.

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I don't suffer from insanity...I enjoy every moment of it.

Posted By: Contender443
Date Posted: 12 Jan 12 at 4:07pm

I guess part of the reason for flying an orange flag is to make the committee boat visible as such. This very useful in a busy harbour where there may be several moored boats in the area and you can also tell the difference between the committee boat and a spectator boat.

It is also used to say it is on station and this is where the start will be. If the wind changes the orange flag may come down to allow the boat to move.

We don't use for club racing as our start line is always in the same place (we have not managed to find a way to move our clubhouse on a need by basis).

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Bonnie Lass Contender 1764

Posted By: marky
Date Posted: 12 Jan 12 at 4:44pm

I have used the Orange Flag as a 'warning' to competitors quite a bit at large events (Laser Worlds, Sail4 Gold, Youth Nationals etc). It basically goes back to the 10,5,1 days.... However, I would only use it at a large National or International event as it gives the sailors (and media) a chance to wake up, get rid of their excess clothing into the coach boats, have a pee and give them a chance to do a short beat. The following wording is what goes into the SI's:

"When there has been a long postponement or when more than one race (or sequence of races for two or more classes) will be held on the same day, the warning signal for the first race and each succeeding race will be made as soon as practicable. To alert boats that a race or sequence of races will begin soon, an orange flag will be displayed with one sound for at least four minutes before a warning signal is displayed."

Personally I wouldn't recommend using this for Club Racing or small Open Meetings (use the AP).

Posted By: AlexM
Date Posted: 12 Jan 12 at 5:25pm

At both the clubs I've been a member at there has been a rigging signal/horn. At one of the clubs it read something like " a rigging signal will be sounded no less than 5 min before the class flag" ie a 10 min warning before the start. It worked because you were on the line as you launched. At my current club it's 20min before the first start which has been programmed into the automated start sequence

Alex

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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 12 Jan 12 at 5:42pm

We brought in a bell ringing at about 10 minutes before the start to allow tea to be gulped and the like before the 5 min - I guess a flag of some sort would do the same off shore.

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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686

Posted By: Presuming Ed
Date Posted: 12 Jan 12 at 8:03pm

If you want a pre-warning warning signal, one common thing is to use code flag F (foxtrot) - a red diamond on a white background. Up at 5 mins to the warning signal (with a sound signal), down at 1 minute (no sound signal).

Comes from match racing, where it's used before each flight. A common variation is to use 2 minutes rather than 5.

Posted By: Andymac
Date Posted: 12 Jan 12 at 9:44pm

Here's some extracts from our SI's;

11 The Start

11.1 An Orange Flag displayed on a mast on either the Committee Boat or the Race Control Box

signifies that the Race Officer is in position at the Start Line.

11.4 The Starting Line will be:For Committee Boat Start

between a mast displaying an Orange Flag on the Committee Boat and an Outer Distance

Mark (start) (as defined in Sailing Instruction 10). An Inner Limit Mark may also be used.

For Race Control Box Start

between an Orange Mast in front of the Race Control Box and an Outer Distance Mark

(start) (as defined in Sailing Instruction 10). An Inner Limit Mark may also be used.

I think it is important to note that the Orange flag is flown from the point where the line transit is taken from!

Posted By: Andymac
Date Posted: 12 Jan 12 at 9:49pm

Originally posted by Presuming Ed

If you want a pre-warning warning signal, one common thing is to use code flag F (foxtrot) - a red diamond on a white background. Up at 5 mins to the warning signal (with a sound signal), down at 1 minute (no sound signal).

Comes from match racing, where it's used before each flight. A common variation is to use 2 minutes rather than 5.

That would cause utter confusion at a Firefly fleet race.

Posted By: Granite
Date Posted: 13 Jan 12 at 10:12am

Thanks, it is good to know that it is used mostly the same in different places. I am in two minds about incorporating it's use. On Sundays we run two races back to back, with the second straight after the first. I think the orange pre-warning would be useful for the second race, but would be a bit excessive for the first race where everyone knows when it should start and AP can be used for any delays.

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If it doesn't break it's too heavy; if it does it wasn't built right

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 13 Jan 12 at 10:30am

I wouldn't bother for club races. Considering that Sunday races are run by club members of varying experience, it might be best to keep it simple....the fewer flags the better.

Posted By: Contender443
Date Posted: 13 Jan 12 at 1:17pm

Originally posted by Granite

Thanks, it is good to know that it is used mostly the same in different places. I am in two minds about incorporating it's use. On Sundays we run two races back to back, with the second straight after the first. I think the orange pre-warning would be useful for the second race, but would be a bit excessive for the first race where everyone knows when it should start and AP can be used for any delays.

I wouldn't bother for back to back racing as this may delay the turnaround between races. On a cold day you want this to be as quick as possible. People quickly learn to spot the last boat and then to look out for the starting sequence.

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Bonnie Lass Contender 1764