Seems that most agree a strong membership of the class association is good for a class.

What do people think of the concept of clubs requiring CA membership for club racing?

Rick

If you are campaigning a boat regularly, yes. If you are borrowing a boat just for a year or just don't really understand the concept of sailing but still have a go then I don't think so. If you do the opens and nationals then I think out of courtesy you should be a member. If you are just starting in the class then you could have a few 'non association' trials to see if you like the opens etc. Does this sound logical or am i barking up the wrong tree

I think you would lose as many club racers as you would gain assocation members.  I think you'd have great difficulty persuading most clubs to sign up to this.

If someone buys a (e.g.) 10 year old boat to do a bit of club racing for fun then I don't see why they should be forced to pay money to an association which as far as they're concerned may do nothing for them.

Mike

I'm undecided on racing sailors being required to become members of their class association (see the "Classes fading from popularity" topic)

Fees could be significantly reduced (by sharing the costs more widely) but income should increase, funding events, magazines, etc., to the benefit of all racing sailors

The best boats and associations would still prosper, and poor boats and associations would still fade in popularity

However, he current situation places even more emphasis on survival of the fittest ... enthusiasts volunteering and contributing helps their class prosper ... classes having to work to generate enthusiasm is good for the sport

If owners are forced to pay, they'd be justified in expecting somebody else to provide a service to them ... who would volunteer for duties ... we could end up with professionally run associations

What is often forgotten is that class associations are not bureaucratic bodies, just groups of enthusiatic boat owners who have "got it together"

Seems to me that the £20 - 30 for CA membership is not a big deal for anyone at a personal level in the context of the cost of sailing. Even if you are sailing an old boat at your local club another 50p/week is not a big ask is it?

But lots of £20 -£30 would make a big difference to the CA's ability to promote thier class and the sport through the running of better training and racing programmes.

Rick

50p a week isn't a big ask on it's own, but there are a lot of expenses in life these days which individually aren't big but collectively are.  A lot of people have to compromise & prioritise.

It's a good healthy thing for CAs to be sufficiently organised & funded to be able to put on racing and training events, but those people who don't participate in them (which is a lot of part-time club sailors) shouldn't have to fund them IMO.  If you compete in opens, championships and other CA-affiliated events then I think CA fees should be required and enforced, although I take Jim's point - maybe the boat should be registered with the CA for a fee rather than the helmsman/crew.

Mike

I guess that is the problem; the CA's need to bridge the gap between the club sailor and the circuit racer.

Rick

Interesting; seems that if you just sail the circuit you have no need for a club so why pay, this sounds a lot like the argument; if I sail at the club I have no need for the CA.

Perhaps clubs could up their subs a little and clubs pay CA's a fee for each class of boat at the club and we do away with the seperate CA fee.

Different model but would make admin simple and stop people free loading from both clubs and CA's.

Rick

Extra Burocrecy will only cost more money for CA and member alike. It would not be enforcable and it would not be liked by any of the members.

If it were by boat sticker then what happens when people borrow a boat?

If it were by ID card they woudl get forgotten or washed. Would a club really turn away someone who has just driven 200 miles to get to the club and is holding £20 entry fee to go into the clubs coffers just because they do not have a peice of card with them?.

When I was growing up sailing Fireflies at Tamesis in the 70s and 80s it was compulsory to be a CA member to race, though a lot of leeway was allowed in the time it took to sign up. As a member of Whitefriars now, where there is very little class racing, it almost all being handicap, there is no such rule. There are almost as many different types of boat out as there are people racing them. At this point, it would be far more worthwhile encouraging people to join the RYA to support the PY scheme than CAs. But that is rather tricky, too...

I've also noticed an increasing number of people on the open circuit putting the RYA as their club, presumebly because the boat is kept at home and raced at opens, so there is no need to be a member of a sailing club. I would imagine that all those in this position are members of their assn, and get much from it.

So how many people here aren't members of their association and yet will still use an assocaition website to ask questions on??

A few problems with sailing, you get sailing as a sport and sailing as a recreation, for those people who fall into the latter category they can see no need for the RYA, the CA or the RRS.

Basically these days everyone seems to want everything for free, I've known several sailors who aren't short of a bob or two who see no need for joining their association, yet when it came to selling thier boat they were both there and complaining about the fee they had to pay (members got to advertise free).

If the Enterprise assoc for example were to disappear tonight, the resale value of ents would plummet, no assoc, no organised racing = dying class

BUT we all know this, it's a matter of conscience, the saving grace is that if your class rules require membership then even at club level you cannot be protested by someone who should be a member but isn't.. licence to cheat it could be :-)

Jim, sorry you felt aggrieved by being asked to jon the class assoc to do the 29er thing, but someone had to pay to organise it all and give up many hours of their time.. is it really that unreasonable to be asked to pay towards this?

cheers

Ian

Originally posted by Garry Biometric ID cards are obviously the solution! Some vital part of the boat is digitally recorded and placed on a chip. Cost should be less than £300 and the technology won't work, but surely this is a price worth paying for protecting the security of our class associations. What's more it will make moving boats across international borders much simplier, especially if going to the USA. Any boat unable to produce an ID card on demand will be indefinately impounded with no judicial review. In fact this is such a good idea Tony's going to get every person in the UK scanned as well.

Don't get me started on that one!

I quite like Rick's idea about the sailing clubs collecting a coupla quid for each class represented at the club.

Maybe, as the CAs are (in general) so heavily based on racing, membership should be free but with the entry for opens being 'a coupla quid' more to cover the diffrence that way you don't need to have paid up front to race at an opens and overnight the CA's would boost their membership. Then with their huge mailing list they can go into marketting overdrive and make a bundle on directing people to their preferred chandlers who pay a % commision on anything sold.

Unfortunately CA's do tend to be a bit of a circuit racers club, for the simple reason that it's the circuit racers who tend to care enough to get involved.

Generally it's a cultural thing in the clubs, it's the older, long standing sailors who seem to set the example of "there's no benefit in joining"; new sailors then take this as gospel.

At the end of the day the guy with a floating shed who sails 4 weekends a year is never going to join anything. From a club perspective he's easy money as he turns up to do his duties, and the club won't want to upset him by asking for extra money in case he leaves altogether.

Most classes do offer savings to their members, it's a hard message to get across though.  As for password protected websites.. well someone has spent the time to put it all together.. why should none members get the same advantages as members.

(As a quick aside, go to Class Training events, if you have no intention of ever doing an open you'll still learn loads about your boat, get more from sailing it and maybe clean up at your club if you pay attention and work hard.)

The RYA could have worked wonders here with the Champion Club and Charter, require a minimum percentage of regular club sailors to be CA members in order for the club to qualify. AFter all both Champion Club and the Charter are about promoting racing and observance of the rules..

Perhaps I'm just an utter fool for the amount of time and money I've poured into my CA over the years.

food for thought.

cheers

Would it not be easy to put up club memberships by £2-3 a year and then pay the relevant associations that money for club racers.  Think how many people club race and do no more.  The associations would get hundreds of extra pounds a year that they could invest in paying coaches to go to individual clubs and give good class coaching.  This would surely encourage more people to go to opens, join the association, more funds........etc.  They could also provide a club racers association pack with tuning info etc.

Everyones a winner!!!!!