What single-hander to supplement my Wayfarer?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Choosing a boat
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URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8191
Printed Date: 04 Aug 25 at 7:25pm
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Topic: What single-hander to supplement my Wayfarer?
Posted By: YouGotTheSilver
Subject: What single-hander to supplement my Wayfarer?
Date Posted: 21 Aug 11 at 9:23pm
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Hello all, I've been lurking around for a while, reading reviews, news and opinions and have been encouraged to seek advice. :) I've been sailing for around 20 years - mainly in an early Mk1 GRP Wayfarer - and with occasional time (helm and crew) on much smaller, lighter, faster boats. Due to the recent arrival of my baby son, family sailing time will be much curtailed / completely brought to a halt for a while. Although the venerable Wayfarer will remain in the family, I'm now looking to take a new direction with my sailing in the form of a performance single-hander. I should probably say that I am 186cm tall and around 84kgs. My hope is that I can turn my okay-ish experience (but also my willingness to learn and to dispense with some of the "cruiser" habits) to a light and fast boat that will really stretch, challenge and perhaps even scare me initially! Light weight is also a real "must" as the Wayfarer has just about finished my back! I'll be sailing almost exclusively inland (predominantly the Lake District) and am unlikely to race initially, so a major class following / scene is less important than a fast, fun boat. This boat will basically be used as and when I can justify time to sail on my own. I also fancy some time out on a trapeze, but that's not the be-all. So far, I really fancy a RS600 but this may be madness? For some reason, I'm not keen on Lasers, but happy to reconsider. I am looking to spend up to £4k but can go further for the right boat (individually or class). Any opinions and suggestions gratefully received! Thanks in advance.
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Replies:
Posted By: Mister Nick
Date Posted: 21 Aug 11 at 9:36pm
| Get a 600. You'll spend countless hours in the drink and wondering what the hell you have bought but at the same time you'll have a lot of fun and you'll become a much better sailor. It'll be like that with any high performance dinghy or skiff to be honest, it's a massive learning curve. I went from sailing a Topper Topaz with my scout group to buying and helming an RS500 and it was huge jump. But it made me a much better sailor and now I'm having a great time with it. |
Posted By: rb_stretch
Date Posted: 21 Aug 11 at 9:40pm
| Obvious choice at your weight and height would be a Phantom. Just what I got when the little ones came along. |
Posted By: YouGotTheSilver
Date Posted: 21 Aug 11 at 9:51pm
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Thanks chaps - much appreciated. I am sorely tempted by the 600 but will now check out the Phantom as well. Following welcome pointers over on Turnturtle.com, my short(ish) list is starting to look like: 1) RS600 2) Contender 3) Phantom 4) Supernova 5) Blaze In no particular order.
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Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 22 Aug 11 at 7:05am
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RS Vareo ?
------------- Phantom 949 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 22 Aug 11 at 7:26am
| Go to Ullswater and check out the International Canoes. Its a big challenge but its amazingly rewarding when you finally get there. |
Posted By: bferry
Date Posted: 22 Aug 11 at 9:48am
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I had to make the same choice around 15 months ago after the birth of my daughter. I've garaged my Miracle for the time being, until she's old enough to sail. I went for the Vareo since it is a mid performance boat with a genny to make things interesting. It can also take additional crew making it quite versatile. OK, so its not an MPS and it you have to hike not dangle off a wire, but its still challenging and really good fun to blast around in. In the Forgot to add; on the Vereo you spend more time sailing that in the water especially if you don't get much time to practice. In my case I don't sail as often as I'd like due to family commitments. However, when I do get to sail, I spend the time sailing rather than swimming. ------------- Bernard Vareo 249 Miracle 2818 Malta |
Posted By: Contender443
Date Posted: 22 Aug 11 at 10:45am
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£4k will get you a good Contender. If you are not racing and are sailing without rescue cover in the lake district then the Contender offers a more stable platform than a 600.
There is also more space in a Contender to take a 2nd person out. ------------- Bonnie Lass Contender 1764 |
Posted By: YouGotTheSilver
Date Posted: 22 Aug 11 at 10:48am
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Thanks for these ideas - the Vareo does look interesting. I am drawn to a trapeze just because I like the experience and I find it easier on the legs, but it's not a "must have", and the option to take another person on board is certainly attractive. Hmmm, this choice might be harder to make than I'd anticipated!
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 22 Aug 11 at 11:27am
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At 84 kg and £4000, you have the choice of pretty much every boat out there! With a little bit of travelling, it should be possible to try them all. Trouble is, with a baby around, finding the time to try them will be tricky! Certainly worth sailing boats like the 600 before taking the plunge - I decided I like my C of G closer to the bit of the boat that is in the water, and went for a hiking boat - the Lightning, in my case. With all that space, find something you love blasting along on a reach with - the Blaze could be a great choice. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: patj
Date Posted: 23 Aug 11 at 6:35am
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I'd say join a good club and spend a while finding out what suits the local conditions, trying a few boats and get the trapeze thrill and training by crewing for people before you try to cope with helming as well.
Most clubs have boats that members can use and people are often happy to let you have a go in their boat.
Then you can make a better informed decision and not buy something you regret.
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Posted By: ex laser
Date Posted: 23 Aug 11 at 10:35am
+1 ------------- |
Posted By: English Dave
Date Posted: 23 Aug 11 at 11:35am
But he has done that. It's not like he's new to sailing. This is just my viewpoint, but if you co for a Blaze or something similar, you will always wonder about whether you could have managed something faster. And I never want to head to my box thinking "what if"? I faced a similar conundrum. I cant campaign cats at the mo cos i dont have the time. I bought a RS700 not for racing but to give me a thrill and to try something really difficult. 9 months on I have no regrets. Sure I'm not the best and you need to sail more regularly than I can manage to get the best out of a trapeze SH. Still can't gybe reliably with the kite up. Single sail gybe is easy peasy now tho so I must be making progress. I come home tired and sometime frustrated but always with a smile on my face. A 600 or a Contender can be bought easily within your budget. Go for it. If I had been buying a boat for racing I would have chosen differently. Got a Laser or adapted a RS200 for SH work (the two major classes at my club). But neither Silver or myself have that in mind. As for regrets, what's the worst that can happen? You sell the boat on and maybe lose a couple of hundred quid. £200 is three tankfuls of diesel for my car which puts it into perspective. Or what your house is devaluing by per day. Life's too short. Go for the fast option. You will learn a different side of sailing and the potential for fun is greater IMO. ------------- English Dave http://www.ballyholme.com - Ballyholme Yacht Club (You'd think I'd be better at it by now) Hurricane 5.9 SX RS700 |
Posted By: YouGotTheSilver
Date Posted: 23 Aug 11 at 12:05pm
That's put it perfectly.  I'm not an anti social sort, but I suspect the realities of my home life (new baby) and my personality (not really into the "club" scene, prefer a lone sail or with friends) will mean I end up blasting about the Lakes mainly on my own in those snatched times when it makes sense. In a way, a challenging boat is what I really crave, even if it means I spend a good bit of time looking at it at eye / water level as we bob about following the n-th amateur mishap! Thanks to you all for your suggestions - this is a very interesting process and I've looked at boats that had never occurred to me.
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Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 23 Aug 11 at 1:11pm
Hmm that says take up windsurfing if you want fast, exciting, accessible. Those MPS/Rs700/Rs600's are just a vexation to the spirit which everyone soon gets fed up with if they don't get to race and or spend the time to master, which no-one ever does in the sort of wind when it gets really exciting, then they have to sit on the dock and watch. I hear they don't send the 49ers out now if its blowing 25 kts which happens to be my favourite windspeed. Er I"m a windsurfer by the way in case you hadn't spotted that. My advice would be race a Blaze. ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: iansmithofotley
Date Posted: 23 Aug 11 at 1:54pm
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"I'm not an anti social sort, but I suspect the realities of my home life (new baby) and my personality (not really into the "club" scene, prefer a lone sail or with friends) will mean I end up blasting about the Lakes mainly on my own in those snatched times when it makes sense. In a way, a challenging boat is what I really crave, even if it means I spend a good bit of time looking at it at eye / water level as we bob about following the n-th amateur mishap! Thanks to you all for your suggestions - this is a very interesting process and I've looked at boats that had never occurred to me." Hi YouGotTheSilver, Personally, I don't think that what you propose to do is a good idea. As previously mentioned by others, whether you like or dislike clubs, and you like being a loner, I believe that the most sensible and safest thing to do is to join a club. By joining a club, you will have the benefit of support/rescue boat facilities, a chance to learn and get advice from others, an opportunity to look at and try other classes of boat, have somewhere to leave your boat if you wished to do so, etc. etc. From sailing an old Wayfarer to sailing a high performance single handed boat is a massive step. I have regularly seen very good club sailors/racers move into 600's, 700's, Musto Skiffs, Moths and even Contenders and struggle greatly. With experience, time on the water, racing and learning from accomplished sailors within the classes and in their clubs, they gradually make the transition, but many, many do not and end up giving up and going back to a 'slower' class or their former class of boat. Again, in my view, if you just travel about the Lakes, launching and sailing a high performance single handed boat, on your own, with no back up or support, from public slipways/access areas, then you are foolhardy. If the weather changes and deteriorates, or the wind suddenly increases when you are out, or you have gear failure, and you are sailing alone, in the middle of Windermere or Coniston, you are putting yourself in danger and will quickly become a nuisance to other people who will have to come and rescue you. I think that is a crazy idea and it is people who do these sort of things, and get into trouble, who get dinghy sailors and other waters ports enthusiasts a bad name. I can give you two examples of incidents at my own club within the last couple of weeks, where people needed help. A very good Vortex sailor capsized as the wind suddenly got up and was rescued and later taken to hospital in an ambulance with a suspected broken ankle (later found to be badly sprained). His boat had to be recovered by a support boat. A 600 sailor with many years experience in 14's, 700's and previous 600's, was racing when the wind suddenly picked up and his mast broke in two places, so he needed help from a support boat. These are just incidents at my club (and they happen at every other club) in the last couple of weeks. Imagine what would happen if you found yourself in a similar position, alone in the middle of Ullswater. What would you do? Just join a club and take it from there. You can be as active or inactive, or as sociable as you wish. You have not stated where you live but there are clubs from South Windermere up to Bassenthwaite on many of the lakes and I am sure that you can find one that is suitable for your needs. You never know, you might even enjoy learning from others, meeting new people, making new friends, racing and attending social events. I am not a 'killjoy', I love my sport but safety must come first for everybody. We all take risks and it is necessary to do so to learn anything, but think about what you are doing, why you are doing it and the possible consequences if things go wrong and the effects on others. Ian (Yorkshire Dales S.C.) |
Posted By: YouGotTheSilver
Date Posted: 23 Aug 11 at 1:56pm
| Thanks Ian. Well, that probably puts an end to this particular plan of mine! |
Posted By: iansmithofotley
Date Posted: 23 Aug 11 at 2:12pm
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Hi YouGotTheSilver, I am just trying to be realistic that's all. Many of us would like to aspire to sailing and racing faster and faster boats well and to the best of our ability. It all depends on what you want to do. I had a conversation with a member of my club on Sunday after another fantastic day of windy and sunny racing. It was to the effect that he could not understand why people sail/race on 'puddles' every week, in 'slow boats', when there are clubs with big expanses of water, ideal for high performance boats. The fact is that many of the smaller clubs, on smaller waters, provide excellent facilities and racing/cruising which meet the demands of its members. Also, the clubs are often more convenient to get to. Don't let me kill you dream, just think about what you are doing that's all. Join a club first, then take it from there. Ian (Yorkshire Dales S.C.)
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Posted By: Ruscoe
Date Posted: 23 Aug 11 at 2:34pm
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I am with Ian on this one, i would deffinately join a club, even if you do not plan on taking part in the racing/Social side. The boats you are looking at sailing will almost certainly break at somepoint rendering them unsailable. You may get caught out in large squalls, which again in the boats listed could be dangerous. Club membership is cheap, and it gives you somewhere safe and secure to store your boat and sail.
I wish you luck in your search, please don't give up the dream just play it safe. ------------- |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 23 Aug 11 at 2:48pm
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If you're not after a club, G.R.F. might actually be speaking sense for once... ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 23 Aug 11 at 3:59pm
Strange - exactly the words that went through my head - windsurfing is a very simple, fairly cheap way of getting out on the water for a quick blast about if time is short. As for whether a Blaze is high enough performance, or whether a 700 is needed for the speed fix, it is easy enough to buy a cheapish 2nd hand Blaze, and if you get bored, sell it and buy something faster. The skills you learn are transferable. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 23 Aug 11 at 4:11pm
Fixed that for you.. ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 23 Aug 11 at 4:27pm
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Nah, it's like a stopped clock, eventually it's right :P
In this case blasting + not wanting to rely on anyone else + limited time = windsurfer. ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: patj
Date Posted: 23 Aug 11 at 7:09pm
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If you join a club, look to the future as well - most clubs are family friendly and it could just as likely provide some social for the missus and toddler while you sail and then later the children can learn to sail with friends.
Having been a "fishing widow" sitting on the river bank coping with babies, I know I would have preferred to be able to go to a warm welcoming club with child friendly facilities!
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Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 23 Aug 11 at 8:43pm
Twice a day every day.  ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 23 Aug 11 at 8:54pm
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but you've got to check with another one to see that it's right. Etc.
------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 08 Sep 11 at 2:59pm
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RS 600 is indeed a bit of madness, but it's the right sort of madness. Has to be tried before you get old. But if you've got the spare cash, a 700 or MPS is possibly a better option, being more fun in sensible weather and possibly easier to get started with. |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 08 Sep 11 at 3:34pm
Why? It's a total con and anyone falling for it is a marketing victim, like RS700's MPS's RS100's speaking as one of life's typical marketing victims and protagonists. Why is it necessary to try and do something that is next to impossible unless you devote 100% of your waking hours practising and even then grasp a fraction of the sailing wind range available to you, even less if you work for a living... ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 08 Sep 11 at 5:19pm
------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |