close-hauled course
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=807
Printed Date: 14 Aug 25 at 8:05pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: close-hauled course
Posted By: Spot192
Subject: close-hauled course
Date Posted: 22 Jun 05 at 1:42pm
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hey all! got a serious problem with my int 14 after the regatta last weekend. we developed an incredible boatspeed and are now one of the fastest boats! but the problem is we canīt go as high as the other 14s on close-hauld course. itīs not only a little bit itīs an enourmous bit! we have to overtake all the boats leeward. any suggestions of maybe changing the forestay or the rig tension? please help is really needed! thanks all in advance! fiona |
Replies:
Posted By: guytoon
Date Posted: 22 Jun 05 at 2:50pm
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Eat more pasta ... ------------- Cherub 2692 "NBS" |
Posted By: Peter Rhodes
Date Posted: 22 Jun 05 at 2:53pm
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is the incresed speed a result of not pointing as high, remember its one or the other ------------- |
Posted By: Spot192
Date Posted: 22 Jun 05 at 4:01pm
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from my point of view we are as high as possible. the speed could be
the result of the new main and me riding the main but the height is
really a problem. i started with some melons guytoon, will it help? |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 22 Jun 05 at 4:07pm
You can always point higher by slowing down:-) Its both the best and the worst thing about a development class that each boat will have its own ideal settings for best performance. Some folk will get their best speed by going high and slower, some by going lower but faster. Adds a lot more interest and means that there's a lot more variety in the racing and tactics, but also means that unless Fred National Champion has exactly the same boat rig and sails as you and weights exactly the same then taking the settings of his/her boat won't mean that you will go faster, and its much more down to you to work out what's fast for you and your boat. If you've got a modern rig then a lot of kicker to power up the mid leech, followed by a lot of downhaul to blade off the top so you're not overpowered can help pointing. |
Posted By: Spot192
Date Posted: 22 Jun 05 at 4:14pm
| hey jim that sounds like a useful idea! wasnīt searching for a particular setting of someone cos we donīt have avarage weight, i was only looking for some suggestions, anything that comes into your mind i could try out. itīs really annoying to see everyone reaching the bouy and you are blasting around, till you reached the bouy too and can start racing cos with kite up everythingīs normal! |
Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 22 Jun 05 at 9:36pm
| What did you change to make the boat so much faster? |
Posted By: m_liddell
Date Posted: 22 Jun 05 at 9:55pm
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Sounds like a mast rake issue. I'm very new to the 14 though and mast rake seems to be used extensively to depower more than other classes though. In other classes Ive sailed the rake really effects pointing vs downwind speed. The 14 website has some rakes but mainly for penultimates. Might still be useful though. |
Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 23 Jun 05 at 8:51am
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I don't know I14s, but in other classes I'd try more rig tension (reduce jib sag) and more kicker tension (close the main leech). When you say "from my point of view we are as high as possible" what exactly do you mean? |
Posted By: Granite
Date Posted: 23 Jun 05 at 8:55am
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Have a look at the jib slot this can make a big difference if it is blown open you will struggle to point. The positions of the kicker and mainsheet strops could be different for the same sort of leech tention for each main sail. does the new main have a larger roach than the old one?
------------- If it doesn't break it's too heavy; if it does it wasn't built right |
Posted By: Chris Noble
Date Posted: 23 Jun 05 at 9:22am
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could be that the new main has a larger roach, thus causing more drag the higher you try to point, or perhaps have you looked at your rake? Could be that you have too much mast rake for the wind strength, or perhaps the jib slot, if it is too open or too closed, this can affect your pointing ability, however its more often than not, that the slot is too far open, thus hindering pointing ability, you want it slightly more open in light winds on a 14, but remember this will also affect the sheeting angle for downwind sailing. ------------- http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=561 - Competitive Boat Insurance From Noble Marine FOR SALE: I14 2 Masts 2 poles 3 Booms, Foils Kites/Mains/Jibs too many to list. |
Posted By: Spot192
Date Posted: 23 Jun 05 at 3:05pm
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m_liddell i can tell you if you forget your mastrake you have already
lost! i was trying many different rakes untill we got our new main and
now the thing starts again! should buy a nice little book to write all
your numbers inside! stefan, with my point of view i meant iīm crewing and so i concentrated on the main as it was very shifty and i only saw some times that everything looks ok. helm tells me he canīt go any higher, so i believe in him but there is defenitley something wrong! granite we have now a new p&b fat-head main. before that one we had thise orange hyde sails. and i just donīt have a clue where all this speed comes from! was the first regatta of the year and before that we hadnīt much time for sailing due to illness and bad conditions. the conditions were normal for the mountain lakes in bavaria. a moderate breeze between 1bft and 3bft very shifty and turns of the wind within 45° (hope that sounds reasonable in english!) |
Posted By: Granite
Date Posted: 23 Jun 05 at 3:57pm
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Your english is fine that's a good description. although the wind sounds a nightmare With the big roach on the fat head, you will probably need to beast the mainsheet on more than you are used to to with the prevous main to keep the leech tight. What are your cap shrouds doing? The leward one should be just starting to go slack when you get fully powered up, any looser and the top mast will be bending sideways which will also affect your pointing. Have fun and let us know how you get on and what fixes it ------------- If it doesn't break it's too heavy; if it does it wasn't built right |
Posted By: ssailor
Date Posted: 23 Jun 05 at 6:55pm
If youve got a new main try heading up until your jib luffs and see how
high you are in relevance - this should show whether the new main is
causing the problems or whether its your settings! Try checking your rake it should be within 8m 20cm to 7m 90cm, check out http://www.i14.org/boat/training2.html - http://www.i14.org/boat/training2.html and hyde sails website to see if they have got any different tips!, remember - point high, = slow but high duh  ,
or step of the wind slightly move back slightly on the wing and the
boat will go one hell of alot faster but no where near as high. The
best idea is to pinch (basically luffing in gusts - main hardly in use
in strong winds when doin this) on the start line to get away or to
make a layline - and once in clear air bring the bow off the wind keep
her flat and on the plane!This mainly depends on conditions the guide above is for basically when theres enough wind to twin! And heres the pic spot of the res when the wind died on wednesday!!   ------------- Any one in need of quality carbon fibre work (tillers etc) at decent prices! Int 14 Gbr 1244 'Nucking Futs' The New Port rule!!. |
Posted By: Spot192
Date Posted: 24 Jun 05 at 1:47pm
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thanks granite! i know that the wind sounds like hell but thatīs the
normal wind down here! you get used to it! those tips are really useful
like yours stefan.iīll check out the rake today and look at my caps but
i donīt think that the caps pull the top to one side cos we have
changed it last year. but iīll check out this aswell! your reservoir looks quite nice but the wind is really totally dead! |
Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 25 Jun 05 at 11:46pm
| I'm not a 14 sailor so I know little but a new main may mean something has changed which means the boom is not coming in as far as it used to. Is the leach longer so that the strop needs shortening or if you have boom sheeting its the bridle at the stern. Remember the main should come in and then the last bit of the main sheet should then pull down, thus tightening the leach. You will go fast but not point if this isn't right. |
Posted By: KnightMare
Date Posted: 26 Jun 05 at 6:59pm
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yeah while on the topic, how on earth do I make a 420 point, I know they arent amazing at pointing but this was ridiculose, we changed the jib setting slightly on a friends advide but still it was no where near what it should be. any words of wisdom? please... ------------- http://theramblingsofmyinnergeek.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: Garry
Date Posted: 26 Jun 05 at 9:13pm
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Pippa
I assume you're set up to the class tuning guide? http://www.420sailing.org.uk/docs/uploaded/GenTuningGuide.ht m You then need to get the jib setting correctly with the main - two boat tuning is probably the fastest way to get the right settings (then remember to mark the positions so you can go back to them. ------------- Garry Lark 2252, Contender 298 www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk |
Posted By: ssailor
Date Posted: 26 Jun 05 at 10:31pm
This is definetly true, but i doubt ur main is longer in the luff/leach even though its new, however we all know how easy it is to dajust a off the boom strop so check it!!! ------------- Any one in need of quality carbon fibre work (tillers etc) at decent prices! Int 14 Gbr 1244 'Nucking Futs' The New Port rule!!. |
Posted By: Spot192
Date Posted: 27 Jun 05 at 1:56pm
| had some nice rides at the weekend and i tried some of your suggestions. the caps thing really helped but the thing that really helped in pointing higher was setting the jib higher! itīs amazing how much that changed! iīll try out next weekend the mast rake but the jib setting was the problem i think. and there is really a difference between the hyde and the p&b main. |