any idears
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=777
Printed Date: 16 Aug 25 at 2:51am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: any idears
Posted By: 5420
Subject: any idears
Date Posted: 13 Jun 05 at 9:20pm
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i have 3500 to spend on a new boat i have .lots of exprents in all diffrent kinds of boat and i am getting bord with my laser so i want somthing more interting i am about 11.5 stone and it must be a 1 man boat because i can not get a crew for anything (unless you have a boat you want me to helm) im not show what to get ant idears thanks |
Replies:
Posted By: Jon Emmett
Date Posted: 13 Jun 05 at 9:27pm
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If you want something really interesting how about a foiling moth! ------------- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Be-Your-Own-Tactics-Coach/dp/0470973218/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312565831&sr=8-1 - |
Posted By: Wave Rider
Date Posted: 13 Jun 05 at 9:28pm
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MPS (musto perfomance skiff) RS 700
------------- -[Franko]- Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club RS600 933 |
Posted By: 5420
Date Posted: 13 Jun 05 at 9:29pm
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im to heavy for a moth mps is too much mony nice boat thow considering the 700 ------------- |
Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 13 Jun 05 at 9:29pm
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I know what some of us are going to say! (I've got names...) Never believe some forum contributors who pretend Contenders can only be sailed by gorillas. It's a lovely boat, even with - and especially because - of its drawbacks. I'm sure Matt or Contender443 will have plenty of other good reasons to bring forward.
------------- http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC 
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Posted By: Jon Emmett
Date Posted: 13 Jun 05 at 9:31pm
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I could be incorrect but I was under the impression that Rohan Veal was around 11.5 stone!!! ------------- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Be-Your-Own-Tactics-Coach/dp/0470973218/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312565831&sr=8-1 - |
Posted By: 5420
Date Posted: 13 Jun 05 at 9:31pm
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i like contenders but i would like a more moden boat ------------- |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 13 Jun 05 at 10:33pm
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Get a loan and stretch to an MPS They hold their value really well. Think about how much money you might lose if you buy a dog ... ------------- |
Posted By: Phil eltringham
Date Posted: 13 Jun 05 at 10:44pm
Carefull saying something like that round here  . The contender is a fundamentally well designed boat, whereas a lot of the newer laser, RS, topper ones are not, modern does not nessassarily mean better. As far as single handers go, the cheapest MPS on sale second hand at the moment is around £5500 i think, 700s are going for about your budget, but the class is busy dying on its arse. The contender has a huge and highly competative fleet both here and internationally. You could buy a reasonable moth and put a foil kit on it for your budget I think, and you would at least be garenteed to have the coolest boat at your club. Having said that yo must also consider what boats you will be racing against day in day out. ------------- FLAT IS FAST! Shifts Happen |
Posted By: Ian29937
Date Posted: 14 Jun 05 at 12:13am
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Hi 5420 If you sail at Grafham as I think you do, the RS700 is probably your best option as there are already a few boats in the club. You might even cadge a trial in Mr Dabsons machine. Plus the sea sailors come to join the fun over the Winter and for the Asymetric slalom. The class is having a good year, sales of new boats continue to be strong, open meeting attendances are up and there are some new fleets forming. You might be lucky and find one for £3500 but most are holding their value well and going for £4500. Cheers Ian RS700 912 |
Posted By: Contender443
Date Posted: 14 Jun 05 at 6:53am
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Don't forget that Contenders can now have a full carbon rig, loose footed sails and high tech sail cloths. So you can see the Contender has been modernised. The only problem with Contenders at the moment is that second hand boats are selling very quickly and it is difficult to find good ones. Other question for you - can you trapeze yet? Best piece of advice though would be to sail the same boat as someone else at your club, just for the help you can get. ------------- Bonnie Lass Contender 1764 |
Posted By: 5420
Date Posted: 14 Jun 05 at 8:00am
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if i was going to get that kind of boat being i sail at graham i would get a 600 or a 700 if i could aford it because there are lots there and yes i can trapeze ------------- |
Posted By: 5420
Date Posted: 14 Jun 05 at 11:38am
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what do people think about the laser vortex with there new kite they look good fun and they are quit cheap
still not made my minde up ------------- |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 14 Jun 05 at 11:39am
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The 600 is the boat I'd go for, you'd get a really good one for under your budget but if a 700 comes up within your budget go for that. ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: Matt Jackson
Date Posted: 14 Jun 05 at 12:55pm
You know what? This is a great place to get a hundred opinions but there is only one that counts - and that's yours(sorry before I edited this it looked like I meant mine Of course my opinion is that the Contender would always be the best boat to choose and some of the drawbacks are greatly lessened by being small/light. The Contender is a dog (for me) until I'm on the wire and I have to let the kicker off to tack. But the Contender has been around for a long time and has a very stable/very competitive open circuit attendance (check the stats on Y&Y). It also has a very simple but tweakable rig meaning that lightweights can be surprisingly competitive. A drawback, and I suspect for you it might be a big one, is that it has no plans to put a kite on it (and never will). ------------- Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36 |
). I've been accused of persecuting the Vortex in the past so all I'll say is try sailing as many classes as you can - I've only had one person sail my boat (and trapezed) that didn't say they wanted one afterwards - and that one person bought one a year later anyway.Posted By: 5420
Date Posted: 14 Jun 05 at 12:56pm
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i know the 600 and 700 are nice boats but i want to consider all the opshons
dose any one have any info on the vortex ------------- |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 14 Jun 05 at 1:08pm
Matt has hit it spot on, try the boats you're considering and see which one suits you best because us all having different opinions will mean that we all are biased to certain boats. As has been mentioned before look at the strong classes in your area and seriously consider sailing one of those because you get so much more out of being part of a strong class. I still say the 600 or 700 are your best option though ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: IanW
Date Posted: 14 Jun 05 at 1:47pm
| Buy a cheap 600 and save up for a MPS better option than wasting good money on a 700 |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 14 Jun 05 at 2:03pm
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Try as many as you can but also take a view on the future of the class. Many of the new classes ahve been through a boom a bust cycle and more look set to bust ... this leaves owners with a boat worth little Seems that the UK on it's own is not enough to sustain a new class. Few exceptions e.g. RS200. The 29er and 49er have good international fleets and the MPS has sold over 50% of the boats overseas so it's looking good for the long term. Rick ------------- |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 14 Jun 05 at 2:12pm
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Good idea about buying a cheap 600 and saving for the MPS. It will provide you with a positive aim for the future and the 600 will give you the basics for moving into the MPS. The 600 is well established but I reckon the MPS is the boat to keep an eye on for the future as I'm sure many others will agree... ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: Chris Noble
Date Posted: 14 Jun 05 at 2:13pm
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you wont be able to get a good foiling option for that money, but you will be able to get a good second hand boat and eventually fit foils to it, and you are fine in that weight range, despite what many people say, there are some people around 14 stone in the class, but if you test sail one, dont be put off too easily as they are definetly a challenge at first but well worth it in the long run ------------- http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=561 - Competitive Boat Insurance From Noble Marine FOR SALE: I14 2 Masts 2 poles 3 Booms, Foils Kites/Mains/Jibs too many to list. |
Posted By: 5420
Date Posted: 14 Jun 05 at 3:09pm
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i am thinking about the 600 and i like it and i like the idear of saving money but the 600 are losing there money and there fleet size fast and i also would like to get a mps when i get older but im still not 100% i still want your vews ------------- |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 14 Jun 05 at 3:20pm
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A lot of people are buying 600s now because they are so cheap and are cracking boats. What will probably happen is that as the prices go down it will atract more buyers due to the cheapness of what is a quality boat. The prices are pretty low just now so I reckon you won't lose too much when you want to sell, and maybe as the class numbers increase, the prices will go back up due to the added demand. ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: 5420
Date Posted: 14 Jun 05 at 3:27pm
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thats trow but also people are buying the mps and the 700 isted of the 600 now because they have a kite ------------- |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 14 Jun 05 at 3:51pm
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Still a good market for the 600 because they are in different price ranges ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 14 Jun 05 at 5:03pm
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Go for a 600. You'd get a great boat with your budget. At your weight the Contender is not really suited (I've had both). Despite the 600 numbers suffering due to the 700 there does seem to be real interest at the moment because they're such a lot of boat for your money. They also make a great learning platform if you want to go assymetric at some stage in the future(they're tippier than MPS or 700). I have had Lasers for years and have found that having got a 600 I really now enjoy sailing again - just mucking about or racing. In addition, even if you have a rubbish race you still will have a big grin. Good luck Rich S
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Posted By: Navy Blue
Date Posted: 14 Jun 05 at 5:38pm
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I would recommend looking for a cheap 600 and haggling downwards. I reckon you may be able to get one in reasonable condition for £1500-£1800 if you drive a hard bargain. At that price further depreciation is not such a concern. 600s are a fantastic design, although initially most find them difficult to sail. Another thing to consider is the running costs: 600s are simple, robust and don't have an expensive spinnaker and blocks to replace every season. If you are stretching your budget to buy the boat in the first place this is a real consideration. Don't get me wrong I think Mustos and 700s are great, but in terms of thrills on a budget you can't beat a 600.
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Posted By: Jamie600
Date Posted: 14 Jun 05 at 5:47pm
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Another vote for the 600 - for your budget you can either get an early and possibly quite tired 700 or a nearly new 600, which will be cheaper long term as there will be less likelyhood of gear failure on a newer boat.
Fleet size - yes there are less boats at 600 meets than 700 but at last years nationals the numbers were almost the same. Plus there are loads of people just getting to grips with the boat at club level so I think next years opens will be much better attended. I have sailed a 600 for three years and I still love it, and having sailed a 700 I actually prefer the 600. The 700 is much heavier and has less sensation of speed than the 600, and is much simpler to set up and sail. There is a demo boat for the 600 class making it's way round the country, so if you fancy a go let me know and I'll try and arrange something |
Posted By: Chris Noble
Date Posted: 14 Jun 05 at 9:04pm
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the other thing is that in a few years, there is a strong possibility that the 600 COULD be foiling (its only a COULD at the moment, but aside form the moth , linton has been "experimenting" with a 600 recently, but itd make sense to make the 600 the next foiling production boat) ------------- http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=561 - Competitive Boat Insurance From Noble Marine FOR SALE: I14 2 Masts 2 poles 3 Booms, Foils Kites/Mains/Jibs too many to list. |
Posted By: 5420
Date Posted: 14 Jun 05 at 10:15pm
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you have sold the 600 to me there is a good one for sale at my club and i will save a lot of muney to but i have some mates that have 600 and i am going to see if i can get a go first but i'l probly get one thanks for all your advise and i will kep you up dated to what hapens ------------- |
Posted By: Chris _Laser2
Date Posted: 14 Jun 05 at 10:20pm
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Speaking as somone whos sailed a contender against RS600's. When its realy blowing you'll regret writing a Contender off :) ------------- Boatless! |
Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 15 Jun 05 at 12:51pm
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Thats not really a relevant comparison. Each boat has its own conditions and we all know that the Contender is a great boat in stronger winds or on the sea. For this thread however were talking about a lighter helm at an inland venue.
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Posted By: 5420
Date Posted: 15 Jun 05 at 1:09pm
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i like the way you called me lighter i still like the 700 im not shaw wever to save some more money and get one of them ------------- |
Posted By: ssailor
Date Posted: 15 Jun 05 at 1:37pm
Definetly go for the 700, a 600 wud be good but im sure pretty soon you
would miss the kite on the front!!! 7's are brilliant boats and a hell
of a lot of fun downwind!!
------------- Any one in need of quality carbon fibre work (tillers etc) at decent prices! Int 14 Gbr 1244 'Nucking Futs' The New Port rule!!. |
Posted By: Ian29937
Date Posted: 15 Jun 05 at 1:39pm
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The 600 is a good boat, it's right on budget and the association are very active. However the 700 is a little bit easier to sail in 'one sail' mode due to the more stable hull form and the lack of a fully battened sail. You might find that it will be easier to get started, and then, when you're ready, you can go for the kite. :<) Another thing you should consider is where you fit in terms of the equalisation systems for the two boats - the 600 is simply big or little wings whilst the 700 is more sophisticated which might be to your advantage being at the Neil S end of the weight scale! Whichever way you go, I'm sure you'll have a lot of fun Cheers Ian RS700 912 |
Posted By: 5420
Date Posted: 15 Jun 05 at 1:49pm
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ian i see you sail a 700 do you think i can get a decant one on my budget and if so what to look out for
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Posted By: Ian29937
Date Posted: 15 Jun 05 at 2:15pm
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I have seen one boat go for your sort of budget, but in all honesty I think he must have been in a real hurry. The real lower end of the market are advertised at £4250 - £4500 so I would guess that with some haggling you could get one for £4K. I'd keep an eye on the RS Association website for 2nd hand boats. The boats themselves hold together pretty well and there isn't anything particular to look for, just consider the state of the sails and lookout for any unusual wear and tear or damage. I'll be wintering at Grafham as usual so unless our paths cross earlier, with a bit of luck I'll see you then! Cheers Ian |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 15 Jun 05 at 11:28pm
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If you are going to spend £4K why not dig a little deeper and buy a MPS; you would then have a light weight high performance single handed skiff as opposed to some of the other options. Rick ------------- |
Posted By: Ian29937
Date Posted: 16 Jun 05 at 1:06am
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Rick, http://www.marketingonashoestring.com/toolbox/egs/cases/devoti.htm - Why the constant litle digs? We all know there is more than one "light weight high performance single handed skiff" on the market and I've suggested that £4K is enough to buy one ......
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