boom main sheeting
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=770
Printed Date: 16 Aug 25 at 2:43am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: boom main sheeting
Posted By: Bobbins
Subject: boom main sheeting
Date Posted: 10 Jun 05 at 5:56pm
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Someone explain whats so good about having the mainsheet coming straight off the boom (via blocks etc)? As this removes any chance of having a jammer on the line for those knackered arm moments, I'm guessing the benefits outweigh this? ------------- www.fastsail.org Fireball GBR 9476 |
Replies:
Posted By: Jon Emmett
Date Posted: 10 Jun 05 at 5:59pm
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On the 49er you are always playing the main. When trapezing low the mainsheet would rub against the wing if it came from the deck, by coming off the boom it keeps less friction in the system and makes it easier to move across the boat. The general trend is for twin tillers and sheeting off the boom, for better performance. ------------- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Be-Your-Own-Tactics-Coach/dp/0470973218/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312565831&sr=8-1 - |
Posted By: Garry
Date Posted: 10 Jun 05 at 7:52pm
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On many classes you also take the sheet off the boom in light conditions to get more feel and also not to tension the leech as you sheet in. Watch Ben Ainsle downwind in the Finn at the last olympics he's sheeting straight off the boom in quite windy conditions. ------------- Garry Lark 2252, Contender 298 www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk |
Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 10 Jun 05 at 8:06pm
| Getting rid of the strop or strut gives a lot more room in the boat and makes it easier to move forward or the crew to move back. The down side it twin tillers. |
Posted By: Jon Emmett
Date Posted: 10 Jun 05 at 8:34pm
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I would disagree and say that twin tillers is definitely a positive! ------------- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Be-Your-Own-Tactics-Coach/dp/0470973218/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312565831&sr=8-1 - |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 10 Jun 05 at 9:23pm
Some more points...
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Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 10 Jun 05 at 9:28pm
You also gain a purchase ! ------------- Wanna learn to Ski - PM me.. |
Posted By: hurricane
Date Posted: 11 Jun 05 at 9:57am
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it makes it easyer to play the sail thats why ainsley was doing it ------------- lifes to short to sail slow boats! RIP Olympic Tornado 1976-2007 |
Posted By: ssailor
Date Posted: 11 Jun 05 at 12:42pm
You have a much directer fell over the sail and playing it is alot
easier - in the case of the skiffs - 49ers, 14s etc the crew takes it
upwind, with 2 hands to play the sail , and the helm free to sail
accordin to the gusts it is much faster than the helm tryin to do it
all at once!! Off the boom is also a much nicer angle when trapezing
than off the floor malarkey, and it also frees the boat from all
useluss clutter!!
------------- Any one in need of quality carbon fibre work (tillers etc) at decent prices! Int 14 Gbr 1244 'Nucking Futs' The New Port rule!!. |
Posted By: NickA
Date Posted: 11 Jun 05 at 10:43pm
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Additional to Jim C's excellent reasons...... ....on a boat with a transom main sheet strop (eg a 29er or laser 2), off the boom sheeting makes it possible to pass a really long tiller extension through the boat when tacking. And sticking with transom strops make it possible to use a lighter boom while still maintaining leach tension. On my Laser 2 the tiller extension length is limited by the positon of the main sheet running through the block on the floor to a little less than you need when out on the wire. And if you move the strop to the middle, the boom snaps. So sheeting off the boom should really help (keep meaning to try it). Finally, if the Bethwaites say it's a good idea, it probably is! |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 12 Jun 05 at 1:58pm
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Leaves a tidier deck layout too. Less things to hit when
running accross the boat. Tried both systems on skiffs and would hate
to go back to the conventional system. Red Back mentioned that twin
tillers are a disadvvantage. Would strongly disagree because with the
twin tiller system you have more control through tacks when its
windier. Whats easier, swinging a tiller round the back of a boat or
simply sliding your hands along it? Suppose its all down to personal
preference.
------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: ssailor
Date Posted: 12 Jun 05 at 6:39pm
Yeh twin tillers give you alot more control, just watch the gybing in
higher and faster, just come of the wire run and slide your hands down
and turn 
------------- Any one in need of quality carbon fibre work (tillers etc) at decent prices! Int 14 Gbr 1244 'Nucking Futs' The New Port rule!!. |
Posted By: squeek
Date Posted: 12 Jun 05 at 8:39pm
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twins are good in anything above 15knots but there a right pain in the
ass in the light stuff; helm cant keep weight forward in tacks or gybes
etc... as for main off the boom its mostly in skiff type boats n depends on the size of the boat. 29ers and anything the same size or bigger do it but in for example in 405's only 2 or 3 boats ever did it n only if it was 25 knots plus. n in situations such as that depends if the helm or crew has a better technique for playin it. |
Posted By: Jon Emmett
Date Posted: 12 Jun 05 at 8:46pm
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Why can the helm not keep his weight forward with twin tillers??? You have to go back to the same point in the boat whether you are sweeping the extension around the back or changing extensions. The crew should always be able to play the main better than the helm as they have two hands! 405s where designed quite a while ago compared to 29ers and hence IMHO why some of the technique used are not as good... ------------- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Be-Your-Own-Tactics-Coach/dp/0470973218/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312565831&sr=8-1 - |
Posted By: squeek
Date Posted: 12 Jun 05 at 9:04pm
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in 9ers and 405's (duno about any other boats) you dont ''sweep''
it round the back u keep it forward...so can stay forward with
single unlike double. true 2 hands has gotta be betta than 1! but in the littler boats.. if the helm has a good thechnique it gonna go quiker and flatter then a 2 handed crap main playing crew |
Posted By: Jon Emmett
Date Posted: 12 Jun 05 at 9:19pm
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The problem if you keep the extension forward (as opposed to sweep around the back) is it easy to oversteer... especially on those windy gybes! ------------- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Be-Your-Own-Tactics-Coach/dp/0470973218/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312565831&sr=8-1 - |
Posted By: ssailor
Date Posted: 12 Jun 05 at 9:20pm
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at the end of the aay in any boat faster than a 29er its worth it, you
cant argue with pratically the whole of the skiff fleets around the
world, alot of int. 14s, 49ers, 29ers, 18ftskiffs, 12ftskiffs,
16ftskiffs etc etc!!! ------------- Any one in need of quality carbon fibre work (tillers etc) at decent prices! Int 14 Gbr 1244 'Nucking Futs' The New Port rule!!. |
Posted By: Jon Emmett
Date Posted: 13 Jun 05 at 9:25am
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Regards sheeting the sooner you give the sheet to the crew the sooner they will get good at sheeting!!! ------------- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Be-Your-Own-Tactics-Coach/dp/0470973218/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312565831&sr=8-1 - |
Posted By: Blobby
Date Posted: 13 Jun 05 at 11:01am
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You can keep twin tillers pointing forwards - just need some garden hose pipe and some shockcord and a little ingenuity... Aft sheeting is much less sheet load therefore much less load on the arms compared to centre main sheeting - this is because the rope leading from the gorilla pulling the sheet to the block on the boom is pulling the main almost directly in & out. With conventional centre main you the force is much closer to the vertical so you have to have much higher sheet load to pull the main in & out. That means your arms get knackered and you need a cleat... |
Posted By: squeek
Date Posted: 13 Jun 05 at 11:30am
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lol yeh very true! it is (i think...!) imposs to put tiller round
the back in a 40 or 29er coz the strops r in the way... if you
did do it it'd be very likely 2 get courght( i cant splell) on
strops etc. me overstear in a gybe...never... (but seriously i was sayin single tiller is only good in light winds and i nevaer (well nearly) do overstear in lightwind) |
Posted By: Calum_Reid
Date Posted: 13 Jun 05 at 11:41am
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The Helm taking the sheet from the boom downwind
in any boat allows more feel and also if u take it straight from the first purchase (so 1:1or 2:1) when you pull a foot of sheet in the boom moves alot further than through an 8:1 system. so pumps are much more effective! ------------- 
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Posted By: guytoon
Date Posted: 13 Jun 05 at 12:47pm
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I moved to twin tillering and sheet out of the boom 1 month ago on my int14. First meeting with my crew sheeting, we noticed an increased speed upwind and far more feeling downwind. Second meeting I was with a rookie in 15 knts and I had to keep the sheet. I lost speed compared to the previous time but I significantly reduced my capsized. After 4 hours on the water on satursday (approx 10knts) and 3 hours the day after (approx 15knts) I wasn't totally burnt. ------------- Cherub 2692 "NBS" |
Posted By: Peter Rhodes
Date Posted: 13 Jun 05 at 2:08pm
can't you play the main with the traveler and leave the sheet cleated so there is less load to deal with ------------- |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 13 Jun 05 at 2:21pm
Not many travellers about these days. The only boat I sail which has a traveller on was built in 1970! With modern mainsheet arrangements like bridles to boom height there's not really any use for them on most classes. |
Posted By: Peter Rhodes
Date Posted: 13 Jun 05 at 4:40pm
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so what are they for? ------------- |
Posted By: Jon Emmett
Date Posted: 13 Jun 05 at 4:47pm
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Not sure about the mainsheet load helping out tired leg/stomach muscles... as the conditions where you are hiking hard are those you need to play the main the most... ------------- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Be-Your-Own-Tactics-Coach/dp/0470973218/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312565831&sr=8-1 - |
Posted By: chucktheskiffie
Date Posted: 15 Jun 05 at 7:08am
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It was my understanding that there was never a place for being tired on a boat!! ------------- |
Posted By: Peter Rhodes
Date Posted: 15 Jun 05 at 8:08am
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if that is the case why do big boats have beds? ------------- |
Posted By: squeek
Date Posted: 15 Jun 05 at 9:14am
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how many skiff do u no that have beds???! alough i can see a sleeping bag wud be nice in winter
------------- 29er GBR 29 |
Posted By: Peter Rhodes
Date Posted: 15 Jun 05 at 11:52am
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operative word being BIG therefore not dinghys ------------- |
Posted By: ssailor
Date Posted: 15 Jun 05 at 1:04pm
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Well in that case how many BIG boats have you seen with off the boom sheeting and twin tillers?
------------- Any one in need of quality carbon fibre work (tillers etc) at decent prices! Int 14 Gbr 1244 'Nucking Futs' The New Port rule!!. |
Posted By: Ian99
Date Posted: 15 Jun 05 at 1:23pm
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What about the B14? - the beds on either side are very comfortable! (For some reason most people prefer to call them wings!) It's quite easy to fall asleep on them when drifting around waiting for wind...
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 15 Jun 05 at 2:20pm
Well *I* find it helps:-) After all the main is still pulling you up even when you're playing it. |
Posted By: Jon Emmett
Date Posted: 15 Jun 05 at 7:12pm
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One thing I think is very interesting is the RS800 bans the crew from doing the mainsheet! ------------- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Be-Your-Own-Tactics-Coach/dp/0470973218/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312565831&sr=8-1 - |
Posted By: Peter Rhodes
Date Posted: 15 Jun 05 at 7:32pm
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why such fussy rules!? ------------- |
Posted By: Jon Emmett
Date Posted: 15 Jun 05 at 7:38pm
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I believe they do not want the RS800 to be seen as a trainer for the 49er... ------------- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Be-Your-Own-Tactics-Coach/dp/0470973218/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312565831&sr=8-1 - |