I'm 15, have been sailing the Laser 4.7/Radial for 3 years now (plus topaz and L2k for 5 years previously), but I want to change to a trapeze boat. Given the apparent lack of any crews for a 29er, I'm looking into an MPS, but im only 60 kg at the moment. Given i'll be 16 and probably 65kg by the time I start sailing the thing properly (GCSEs are, sadly, going to entertain me till June), is it really possible to sail these things at all? I have had fair experience+tuition helming and crewing 500s, Vagos and 29ers. I don't need something for incredibly serious racing, but i'd like a challenge and something that i can do club racing in at least a bit and can keep sailing for a while. If i cant sail in stronger winds, then so be it, there's always the backup laser Radial 

So, is the MPS something i can at least manage? And is it something i can enjoy sailing fairly regularely, maybe 3 times a fortnight? There's someone else my age getting one, so the Musto is preferable over the 700

Thanks

Ovington recommend that you weigh at least 70kg for capsize recovery, so I'd go with at least that. It's a bitch trying to right a boat you're too light for >_<

And about the 'apparent lack of any crews for a 29er' thing. I'll happily crew one for you (similar ages)!

Fair enough us small people cant hold the power in the heavier stuff but you just have to man up and hold onto what you can :) 

Another bonus with the 600 is that the cost is at least half of any Musto Skiff you could find. So a real bargain boat considering they are quite closely matched in speed (apart from when the big flapper goes up on the Musto downwind).

It is definitely something you should consider

http://www.rs-association.com/index.asp?fleet=RS700&selection=Documents - http://www.rs-association.com/index.asp?fleet=RS700&selection=Documents   There's the link for all the 700 documents and all that crap, you might find some more weight stuff there.

No idea what they're like to sail, they look pretty fast though. I'd imagine they're just a bigger, faster 600 with a kite.

 

Good luck with the project - you'll have fun which ever you buy.

 

 

I'd strongly advise as James says, to try all boats before coming to a decision. My opinion is that the MPS  is a much better boat than any of the RS's by a country mile. The strength of the MPS class association and resale value strongly reflects this. From what I know of the MPS and the 700, is that on the face of it the 700 seems easier to sail, until you sail it, then you find the 700 is a less refined boat, slightly more over-powered and not as easy to get the most out of.

 

This is just my opinion, don't buy a boat based on forum advice, make the decision based upon what you like, as I know my opinion varies much from others on this forum and therefore, you'll be getting much different views, which one is right is really down to you.

Surprisingly It's easier to right than the jolly old RS100 and I recall no less than 18 capsize and recoverys in one race, back a couple of years ago when I was a lot more fitter than I am these days. (After about 6 I tend to chuck in the towel).

But even when I'd mastered getting on the wire on my good tack, in anything greater than a force three, in which I was laying out parallel to the water getting beaten by every wave, every tack was straight to irons.

The MPS was/is another clear hyped boat continued by a few who themsleves find it uncontrollable once they're own wind weight barrier is attained precious few of which appear to be in control above force five.

Don't get me wrong, it can be done, but the 'doers' better be bulky and they better have had at the very least some Olympic squaddy experience. I often wonder if in another life had I had the time wether I could have mastered it, but then you just add up the physics of it all, and I'm a lot more experienced now than I was back then and I still don't think the way it's set up the rack widths set as they are (And i know this was the big gripe my chum had with the class who at the time didn't want it to be particularly lightweight friendly) It's no boat for anyone under 70 kgs. Then again, I'm beginning to wonder if such a boat exists, well, fast, modern and friendly that is.

After being in production how long? 

With unbelievable sex appeal for a dinghy, a brilliant builder, a superb class, some fantastic coverage, imagine how many entries there could have been had it been possible to use by anyone.

 

bottom line? 74 is massive.

joking

But the days when a comparitively rather cheaper board class could pull that sort of entry have long since passed.

 

Actually (and we're going a bit off topic) at todays prices, what is the value of one those boards (or its current equivalent) brand new? Is it more than £1350?

Now a board complete of way better standard can still be purchased sub £1000, £899 if you're lame and like Fanatic whereas a Laser, what's that in todays money? I bet it's a couple of grand or more.

Very much a case of Less is more..

I think I'll go look it up, see just what they charge for a brand new Laser which aint that much different to the way it was back then.

Not sure what any of this has to do with a kid who enjoys getting wet buying a boat that will make that happen rather a lot...sounds perfect to me.

Four Grand for a Laser?

For F**ks Sake!

Good Value there then - ER Not.

 

+1

 

Jaws, where do you sail?

 

Seriously, good luck with the boat, which ever you go for should be good fun, my money would be on the MPS though!

No no no, try and stay awake at the back...

A pukka raceboard, even back then would have cost a grand for the board and another few hundred for the rig. CYT back in those days. So more than 3 times the cost of the windsurfing equivalent of a Laser.

No the 74 v 500 was simply a comparison of fleet size, there are large dinghy fleets, they get four hundred in some classes still do they not? I bet those classes are the easy to sail boats..

 

This is the way I see it, please, please, please DON'T GET A 49er UNLESS YOU HAVE A DECENT AND COMITTED CREW! In your initial problem description you said you were struggling to find a crew for the 29er, the 49er will just make things worse as you are throwing a much more difficult and scarier boat inro the equation. I know numerous paople who have bought 49ers thinking they'll pick up a crew and it never quite works out like that and they are stuck with a boat they struggle to sell. The most important piece of equipment on the 49er is the crew!

 

In the same instance, I know quite a few people who have had 49ers and sold them to sail mustos and haven't looked back. The MPS is a really good boat, I'm not a class rep or anything like that, just making the call on my experience. These guys are still raving about their boats 4-5 years after. What I'd do is buy the Musto just now, learn the skills for the boat and then once you've mastered it, look for someone to sail 49ers with, maybe crew or helm for one of these people who have bought boats and negated the crew factor. In a few years time, I wouldn't be suprised if you're still very focused on the MPS and the 49er idea has went out the window. I don't think you'll get bored of the MPS, the 800 on the other hand will most likely seem very tiresome in a short ammount of time if you can sail a 29er well. There's not too much difference in speed, I've seen MPSs trample over 800s across the water, however with the MPS you don't have the crew requirement and they are probably a much more involving boat to sail.

 

Your initial idea of the Musto skiff was the best, just go with it! I'd be encouraging you as much for the 49er if you had the crew factor sorted out but don't even think about it. I wouldn't see the MPS as a compromise because you can't get a crew, I'd view it as an equally good alternative. Any of the RS alternatives come up really short compared to the MPS as well in my opinion. Just to complicate things, if you must get a double hander, which I think is a bad idea, the 800 is the better option as you won't struggle as much to fill the crew sized gap at the front of the boat.

I think you're missing my point, which was if it(the MPS) was easier, by now after ten years it would have attracted more helms, there would have been less wastage, as it is they attract us (helms) we find out what a pain it is to sail, then give up or move on.

Taking as a comparison, one I'm sure will also have a fair amount of wastage as soon as something easier comes along that does the same job, the RS100, the perception was that it is easier and exciting, it got a fair bit of hype here and its' first nationals barely 6 months into its production cycle achieved 43 boats. I'm sure next year will be more but already it has some wastage including the bloke it was designed for. Now the MPS took 7 years to achieve that number. I'm sure the RS100 will exceed it by next year ad it could go on to be 'massive' if your view is that massive is that sort of figure.

My own view is that any nationals less than 100 entries is pathetic and one could hardly boast of it as any great achievement in winning it.

You sail a cherub, nobody cares what you think.

And TT, agreed, but what we need is a scale of 1-10, 

1 being the most difficult bloody near impossible and 10 being easy peasy lemon squeezy even an ageing female contender sailor could do it.. (Or contrary French bird ) 

I think I shall start it, and y'all can add and alter to your hearts content, mine is obviously my own somewhat arrow experiences.

So I'd put the MPS as a 1 as it's the most difficult thing I've sailed.

I'd rate the Rs100 at say a 4, with the Blaze @ 6 the Alto about the same, the RS500 a 5, the L3k a 7 with the 8,9,10 for stuff like lasers toppers and other plastic beach toys..

How does that sound?

Done it in a new thread, how easy, I mean just to get it round the cans in most winds, not to sail it well enough to championship standard.

And if someone has to tell you 'special rigging techniques' sorry bottom of the pile, below 5..

10 is good in this survey.

What would be excellent is Fast as well as Easy which of course we all know doesn't yet exist.

 

lol :)