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boat for windsurfer

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Choosing a boat
Forum Discription: Ask any questions about the sport!
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=707
Printed Date: 06 Aug 25 at 7:08pm
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Topic: boat for windsurfer
Posted By: alex d
Subject: boat for windsurfer
Date Posted: 16 May 05 at 9:51pm
Hi,
 
 
I am after advise on which boat to go for.  I am a windsurfer who is converting over to sailing.  I am a level 4-5 RYA windsurfer.  If your not familiar with that level in windsurfing it's going full out on any board and winds upto and including force8.  harness. footstraps and jumping etc etc.  I am moving to sailing to try and include my wife more and eventually kids.  Although the later are only 1 year olds so not too worried about the boat for them at the moment.  My sailing experience on dingies is sailing at school ( although thats a long time ago as I'm 33 now)  sailing dart 16 to isle of wight (friends boat)  in force 3.  and sailing 10Metre yacht in the solent.  I will be looking at joining farmour sailing club after doing a sailing course.  I was recomended to do one from the safety side of things although I can sail already.  I need a boat that I could take the wife sailing in light winds but also solo for fun and blasting around a bit and hopefully a bit of racing.  Would you think windsurfing experience counts for much in the dingy side of things or is it a case of going right back to the beginning and basic beginners boats.  I enjoy the fast side of windsurfing but are the fast dingys similar to balance ond plane or and I jumping way ahead of myself here.
 
Do sailing club members generally take people (unknown club members) like myself out on their boats to help people understand which is the best boat to get.  It seems such a bit market and on that I don't want to make an expensive regretable mistake in.
 



Replies:
Posted By: hurricane
Date Posted: 16 May 05 at 10:02pm
the guy i often sail with used to windsurf then got into cats through dart 18's his first boat then quickly got a hurricane 5.9 and hasnt looked back since if you like speed then cats are the way to go. spitfire would be good but quite expensive for what they are i would look at an old 5.9

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lifes to short to sail slow boats!

RIP Olympic Tornado 1976-2007


Posted By: alex d
Date Posted: 16 May 05 at 10:24pm
I did think about a cat but friend with one found the sailing season was short as it was very wet sailing.  I was also concerned about the ability to right one if capsized by myself.  I weigh 13.5 stone.  My budget is also up to £3000max


Posted By: Mike278
Date Posted: 16 May 05 at 10:27pm
I would recomend joining a club, and then have goes in other peoples boats to see what you like. (most people are more than happy to take out new people, or are looking for crews for a race)

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Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.


Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 16 May 05 at 10:51pm

Originally posted by alex d

I did think about a cat but friend with one found the sailing season was short as it was very wet sailing.  I was also concerned about the ability to right one if capsized by myself.  I weigh 13.5 stone.  My budget is also up to £3000max

 

I was about to offer you my boat, but your budget is not enough.  Maybe an old Hurricane is the way to go, but you cannot (really) sail this single handed.  Spitfire is possible single handed with some experience.

 

If you are looking for a speed fix, then it has to be a cat.



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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..


Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 17 May 05 at 7:21am
Originally posted by alex d

 I will be looking at joining farmour sailing club after doing a sailing course.  I was recomended to do one from the safety side of things although I can sail already.  I need a boat that I could take the wife sailing in light winds but also solo for fun and blasting around a bit and hopefully a bit of racing.  Would you think windsurfing experience counts for much in the dingy side of things or is it a case of going right back to the beginning and basic beginners boats.  I enjoy the fast side of windsurfing but are the fast dingys similar to balance ond plane or and I jumping way ahead of myself here.
 
Do sailing club members generally take people (unknown club members) like myself out on their boats to help people understand which is the best boat to get. 
 
I also moved from windsurfing to dinghy sailing, quite a few years ago now. You will find windsurfing experience a big help, largely because you will have the awareness of the wind which most beginners take a while to learn. Personally in your shoes I wouldn't bother with a course. More fun figuring it out yourself and if you didn't drown windsurfing, you are unlikely to do so in a dinghy.
 
The main problem you are going to face is that no single boat will be satisfactory to take your wife pottering and also race single-handed.
 
As for club members taking you out on their boats: some will, some (probably most) won't. However almost every sailor like talking about sailing and you will soon find that every single boat owner thinks the class of boat they own is the one everybody should have. Get advice but talk to plenty of different people.
 
With a few exotic exceptions (which you definitely aren't ready for yet) you will find dinghies a lot slower and less exciting than windsurfers. The compensation is the racing is much more satisfactory.
 
 
 


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 17 May 05 at 12:15pm
If you like wave jumping and extreme acceleration, in a boat with high
values of apparent wind that is good for mixed crews i.e light sheet
loads, with the same sort of wind-surfer buzz and class culture. There is
really only one class. The UK Cherub.

http://www.sailingsource.com/cherub - http://
www.sailingsource.com/cherub


PS, we rig on our sides, and there so light you carry them to the water, so
you'll be used to that.

-------------
http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website
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Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 17 May 05 at 12:19pm
Oh... I live in Oxfordshire and am thinking about Farmoor as my club, so
may be see you up there. I'll bring the boat if you want a ride.

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Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 17 May 05 at 3:53pm
Taught a few windsurfers before and the balancing skills, sail knowledge and wind awareness will mean you pick things up really quickly. Had someone do a Level 1/2 course and go straight into high performance sailing after that. Hurricane 5.9 is probably your best bet, will keep you really interested but strongly recommend crewing with someone to start off or even doing a cat specific course. The Cherub might also be a good bet if there are a good few in your local area.

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Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ -
Helensburgh S.C
http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine



Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 17 May 05 at 4:04pm
Farmoor does not appear to be a cat club. I'm willing to be put right but I can't think of a bit of water in Oxfordshire that is really big enough for cats. http://www.oxfordsailingclub.com/index.html - http://www.oxfordsailingclub.com/index.html


Posted By: maxim
Date Posted: 17 May 05 at 9:23pm
No you're right, hardly any cats at all here at Farmoor.
We do have quite a reasonable size patch of water
though, fine for most monohulls... Also, a lot of
windsurfers about.


Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 17 May 05 at 9:41pm

Maxin,

You are alowed Cats on Farmoor now, good ho.  Years ago I was prevented from sailing my Dart 18 there at a Schools Nationals - I was not a happy bunny and ended up in a Laser II (for the first and last time) .



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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..


Posted By: maxim
Date Posted: 17 May 05 at 9:46pm
Which schools nationals was that?? I think the club
has a cat to lend out which I see saiing
occasionally... so I guess they're allowed. If it was a
Laser II lent by us you'll have probably sunk (we just
brought them all back today to chuck them away!!)


Posted By: hurricane
Date Posted: 18 May 05 at 10:29am
regarding budgets hurricane 5.9's are bargains with the old ones retailing around £2000 these boats are just as competitive as the new ones so no real need to spend all the money unless you are thinking about looks of the boat!!!

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lifes to short to sail slow boats!

RIP Olympic Tornado 1976-2007


Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 18 May 05 at 11:19am

Originally posted by maxim

Which schools nationals was that?? I think the club
has a cat to lend out which I see saiing
occasionally... so I guess they're allowed. If it was a
Laser II lent by us you'll have probably sunk (we just
brought them all back today to chuck them away!!)

 

Cough, 1986 ish....  Cough



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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..


Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 18 May 05 at 11:20am

Originally posted by hurricane

regarding budgets hurricane 5.9's are bargains with the old ones retailing around £2000 these boats are just as competitive as the new ones so no real need to spend all the money unless you are thinking about looks of the boat!!!

 

Just make sure it has a 'bendy' mast, much faster when the time comes for racing.



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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..


Posted By: ChrisJ
Date Posted: 18 May 05 at 12:51pm

Cat or mono hull?  If you like wind surfing, I suspect that you will want to continue to do that in any wind of force 5 or more. Therefore, you want a boat to sail inland in lighter winds. This means a normal mono hull dinghy, rather than a cat.

 

Single handed with something extra to do? How about a Vareo? Has a good kite to help you down-wind.

A Laser is always a good bet for the close racing you can have.

Trying to find something for you single handed that you can take the wife in is tricky, but some of the smaller 2-man boats might be acceptable: Graduate, Heron, Pacer: but they could all be a bit boring.

An RS200 would be lively enough for 2, with good close racing, but I haven't seen people sailing them single handed.

Or an RS400 if between you you are 23 stone or more - but definately NOT single handable.

 

 



Posted By: alex d
Date Posted: 19 May 05 at 10:09pm
What about a Blaze?  There sems to be racing at farmour and burghfield with them.  Both 30mins drive from my house.  Is this jumping the gun a bit or will I tame it?  Price seems right.  Any comments.  Cheers for all the help so far


Posted By: hurricane
Date Posted: 19 May 05 at 10:18pm
the thing is as a windsurfer changing to sailing. speed is often a key factor am i right??

-------------
lifes to short to sail slow boats!

RIP Olympic Tornado 1976-2007


Posted By: alex d
Date Posted: 19 May 05 at 10:39pm
speed is a key factor but so is being able to take part in some racing.  I do enjoy the blasting of windsurfing but not the broken ribs from catapulting on the mast at mac 10 in the solent. 


Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 20 May 05 at 8:57am
Ouch. I damaged my shoulder from catapulting onto the mast windsurfing on a short chop off Hayling and a physio reckons that shoulder problem I have 20 years later are due to that incident.


Posted By: bigwavedave
Date Posted: 20 May 05 at 11:48am
Yeah windsurfing can really hurt.  Learning to jump is easy going up but the landing is difficult. I never managed to complete a full forward loop.  Trust me NOTHING hurts as much as half a loop.

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Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 20 May 05 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by alex d

What about a Blaze?  There sems to be racing at farmour
and burghfield with them.  Both 30mins drive from my house.  Is this
jumping the gun a bit or will I tame it?  Price seems right.  Any
comments.  Cheers for all the help so far


With the new rig they are better but difficult to find second hand.

-------------
http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website
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Posted By: lozza
Date Posted: 20 May 05 at 12:54pm

Why not try an RS300?

More simple rig than a blaze but faster and better overall contruction.

Carve gybing is also a really useful technique in the 300!!!



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Life's a reach, then you gybe


Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 20 May 05 at 1:55pm

Cherub seems the best bet because for thrill factors they will have you jumping for joy. Plus there seems to be a few in your area, why not arrange to sail with someone for a season then get a boat once you've got that season's experience under your belt.



-------------
Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ -
Helensburgh S.C
http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine



Posted By: alex d
Date Posted: 20 May 05 at 5:39pm
is the rs300 single handed sailing?  Where are the cherubs in my area?  Obviously if I could find someone in my area to show me them it would be so much easier picking a boat after having a go.


Posted By: maxim
Date Posted: 20 May 05 at 5:58pm
yes, the rs 300 is singlehanding...
Not sure how many cherubs there are at farmoor - I'll
have a look - never seen any though (but I don't do
the club racing...)


Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 20 May 05 at 6:38pm
Don't quite see how an RS300 fits in with taking your wife sailing.


Posted By: alex d
Date Posted: 20 May 05 at 10:23pm
the wife has decided that I should buy a boat that I will be happy with as she doesn't think she'll have the time to sail for a while.  So now it's just a boat for me!!  She may end up doing a course but only wants to ponder around the water in light winds as opposed to myself who wants to blast around and race.  This definately puts a different angle on the "which boat should I buy"


Posted By: Hector
Date Posted: 20 May 05 at 10:48pm

We've been through this with 5420 - have a look at the discussion below.

http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=642&KW=5420&TPN=1 - http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6 42&KW=5420&TPN=1

My advice remains - Make a shortlist, have a trial sail in each.

For reference, a Musto Skiff would give you the thrills but could be outside your budget,  Contender has top competition nationally and internationally and a good secondhand choice, the Vortex Champion is an ex windsurfer Div 1 world Champion, and several other ex Windsurf racers sail them, Blaze with new rig are excellent - especially if that will get you class racing. In the end you'll never get the same speed thrill as in a windsurfer but the racing is stacks better. So go to Farmoor on  a busy day and see whats popular. In most clubs that will be Laser, Solo, Phantom or similar. Either sail that for the fleet racing or go for one of the faster more exciting but usually less well supported classes. Don't they sail Int Canoes at Farmoor?



Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 21 May 05 at 7:48am

What do you weigh, Alex? For all dinghies, but especially single-handers, there is quite a narrow band of optimum weight, particularly because you plan to race.

I'm not sure all of Hector's suggestions are really suitable for someone who hasn't sailed dinghies before, albeit an experienced windsurfer. For example, International Canoes are extremely tricky to sail. Contenders and Musto Skiffs are helmed while trapezing, which is a pretty steep learning-curve for a first-time helm. I say this as someone who also made the transition from short-board windsurfing to dinghy helming.

 



Posted By: alex d
Date Posted: 21 May 05 at 4:09pm
I weigh around 83kg (13 and a half stone) give or take a kg.  What did you go for and what do you sail now?


Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 22 May 05 at 8:36am

My first dinghy was a Europe. At the time I was 10 stone; Europe competitive weight is around 10-11 stone so it wouldn't really suit you. They are lovely responsive boats though, and at the time had a good open circuit. Later on I sailed Merlin Rockets, dabbled fairly unsuccessfully with a International Moth, and also did a lot of keelboat racing.

My recent sailing has been in keelboats of various classes: inshore and offshore (long distance) racing. However I still own a Merlin Rocket.

RS300 could be a good choice at 83kg. Laser would be another obvious choice, with class racing at most clubs. There is a great deal to be said for buying a boat with class racing at your local club; a point that perhaps hasn't been emphasised enough here. If there is a class at your club, you have an automatic social and advice network, and class racing is much more satisfactory than handicap.

 



Posted By: maxim
Date Posted: 22 May 05 at 2:13pm
Yeah, and you don't have to stay in a laser forever.
Lasers are great for learning how to cope sailing in
many different conditions - by yourself, and when
you've mastered this, you can always move on to
another class - having gained invaluable basic skills
in sailing fast, and also got to know the people and
classes in your club. (p.s. lots of lasers at farmoor...)


Posted By: alex d
Date Posted: 22 May 05 at 8:03pm

buying a single handed racing boat for me seems a good idea, esp. one that has a good amount of racing at local clubs.  I think I'll have to start there and see what the club at farmour has to offer.  I know lasers are popular due to the racing but are they good fun to sail if not racing?  Would I be wanting a fun/mess about boat aswell?  Are the laser vortex's good fun? Fast?  Or is a single cat like a hobie 15 better?  So many questioons when you're starting and thanks to evryone who has been patient with me and answering.  It really does help hearing different opinions. 

A social life attatched to racing may encourage the wife to participate, so the laser racing may help me there too.



Posted By: NickA
Date Posted: 24 May 05 at 8:44pm

Lasers fun?  Hmm.  Not the fastest or best designed boat in the world and can be a battle up wind in a blow; but there's little to beat belting down a reach with your shoulders skimming the wave tops!!  Go-kart racing on water.  There is something appeallingly basic about them.

and hey, for the speed they're cheap, there's lots of them and they'll never stop selling the parts.

Vortexes haven't really caught on - and laser stopped production, plus cramped and a ****er to tack (apparently).  Dart 15 maybe?



Posted By: Hector
Date Posted: 25 May 05 at 12:50pm

Nicks comments about Lasers are spot on - especially the comparison with gocarts. Shame he had to spoil a sound post by saying

Originally posted by NickA

Vortexes --------------- cramped and a ****er to tack (apparently).  Dart 15 maybe?

A Vortex cramped - surely you're joking Nick? There must be more deck space than any similar sized boat and a high boom.  To then say a Vortex can't tack and suggest a Dart 15 (Sprint) in the same breath is ludicrous. Vortex tack very well - there is a technique to be learnt but then there is for any boat and once mastered they tack as fast as almost any singlehanded dinghy of the same speed. 

As for fun, with the new kite Vortex are lots of fun and very fast. That said I'd still say go to Farmoor and if Lasers are the most sailed class - get one.

And Nick - don't listen to 'apparently' he obviously knows nothing.



Posted By: pondmonkey
Date Posted: 13 Sep 12 at 2:34pm
I would recommend a Laser EPS

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Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 17 Sep 12 at 10:24am
Originally posted by pondmonkey

I would recommend a Laser EPS

Nah, not until he's had an MPS, Blaze, RS100 and tried to build his own solution, why should he have it easy?


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Posted By: Don Novello
Date Posted: 21 Sep 12 at 1:53am
He shouldn't



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