Winder rudder stocks
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Repair & maintenance
Forum Discription: Questions & tips on the subject
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6747
Printed Date: 10 Aug 25 at 12:45am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Winder rudder stocks
Posted By: Merlinboy
Subject: Winder rudder stocks
Date Posted: 19 May 10 at 10:23pm
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Whilst clearing the weed from my rudder this evening i managed to snap the tiller in my Winder Kevlar stock (about 1 inch from the stock itself) I think its a right off, and the only way i can see of fixing it is sleeving it internally. Has anyone ever replaced the tiller itself? Is this possible? If not anyone got any recomendations for replacement carbon rudder stocks, to fit milanes foils? |
Replies:
Posted By: mongrel
Date Posted: 20 May 10 at 6:45am
| The winder carbon stocks are much nicer than the kevlar ones, the tiller is carbonm as well, they're a fair bit light than the kevlar stock, & your blade will fit straight in. |
Posted By: DaveT
Date Posted: 20 May 10 at 2:44pm
| ring winders, the ally tillers on thier fixed blades come out but not sure of the lifting stock. |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 20 May 10 at 3:31pm
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I have spoken with Winders, The tiller is not removable. There is also a 6 week waiting list for a new carbon stock!! I have spoken with Chipstow today and i am going to send them pictures of the break, hopefully they can remove the tiller and replace it with a carbon version! ------------- |
Posted By: Alistair426
Date Posted: 21 May 10 at 2:45pm
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Did the same thing to my Phantom stock. Got some ali tube (ebay) that, unfortunately, was slightly over the i/d of the tube, filed/emery-ed it down to size (bit of a faff), epoxied it inside break, wrap of carbon over join, Bob's one's uncle. Added weight - negligible; reduced stiffness - un-noticable. |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 21 May 10 at 3:22pm
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I have now managed to find the only carbon winder stock in the country (thats available for sale) So i have ordered it. My tiller was alloy Alistair, will a carbon wrap work on this??? ------------- |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 21 May 10 at 3:30pm
Inadvisable in salt water. |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 21 May 10 at 3:49pm
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Thats exactly my thoughts Jim, Salt water has already assisted with the destruction of the tiller. I think i will have a go at removing the old Alloy tiller and replaceing it with a carbon one myself. If it works then great i have a spare if it doesn't then i can always just bin it!
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Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 22 May 10 at 12:36pm
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Any chance when your new stock arrives you can tell us the respective weights of old and new? I'd be intrigued to know how many grams we can save per £. ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 22 May 10 at 1:41pm
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No worries MM, i will weigh both of them as blank stocks
i.e. with no blade or mechanism. ------------- |
Posted By: Garry
Date Posted: 22 May 10 at 5:42pm
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If you have a machine shop nearby they should be able to
mill out your old ally stock and it shouldn't cost the earth. You could then epoxy in a new carbon tube. Garry ------------- Garry Lark 2252, Contender 298 www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 22 May 10 at 8:59pm
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Its all time and a pain in the arse Garry, i was hoping i could of sent it off to be repaired but the quote i have
just had back makes it almost as expensive as upgrading to the full carbon one!! I also don't have time to get the tiller milled out. Hopefully my carbon one will be here tout sweet! ------------- |
Posted By: Alistair426
Date Posted: 26 May 10 at 3:06pm
| Sorry for delay. Seems to be OK in salt water. Gets a good hosing after each sail. |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 26 May 10 at 10:11pm
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Well my new carbon stock arrived today, its super slick! Although there are a few questionable issues with the finish and layup. I have fitted it out so i am ready to race again this bank holiday. I did weigh both stocks as promised, but only on my rather battered set of digital bathroom scales. they both weigh pretty much the same, although the carbon one to the fell is slightly lighter. It would appear my bathroom scales are not sensitive enough to measure the differences. I must at this point thank James Jarvey of JJ boats, the service he delivered with the quick turnround of this stock was second to none. He communicated impeccably which is such a rare thing (i find) in the dinghy industry. He was also the only person in the country with a carbon stock in stock! I'll post some pictures up this weekend.
PS if anyone wants to have a go at repairing a broken winder epoxy stock (broken alloy tiller) then make me an offer on it. ------------- |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 27 May 10 at 11:04am
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Watch this carefully. Depends on the aluminium, but I've just had to repair some carbon poles seriously damaged by an ali sleeve corroding. And the boat was sailed on fresh water. Yo MerlinBoy, your PM box is full and I might be interested in the broken stock!!!! Cheers, Chris
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Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 27 May 10 at 11:55am
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Chris its now empty.
I may put the stock on E-may as i seem to have an inbox full of reponses about the stock, it seems fair on everyone that way, but PM me your offers highest bid secures ------------- |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 27 May 10 at 1:33pm
Stick it on ebay with some pictures and dimensions and let us all know? I suspect someone who needs one quickly will pay a bit more than someone like me who intends to put it aside until a blade comes along/gets made! Hard to guess a value but if I buy something on ebay, theres always the idea that you can re-sell it for the next lowest bid if it doesn't work out... There is an interesting article on the N12 website showing how to make one. I fancy having a go, but don't have the time right now. |
Posted By: GybeFunny
Date Posted: 25 Jun 10 at 4:55pm
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I agree RS are very good with their warranty stuff when it involves a component they can send you but you wont be quite so happy if you have a hull issue….. When I had a split in an RS hull due to poor manufacture I ended up having to tow the boat back to them, leave it there 2 weeks and then go back again to collect it, a total of 400 miles driven on my own time and expense for a warranty issue. I then had to repeat that 2 further times due to the repairs not working! A total of 1200 miles! |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 26 Jun 10 at 9:17am
Ha, Jimbo when i had my 300 rudder and stock stolen it wasn't that simple pal. They were out of stock and it took 2 weeks (at least) if i remember!! The lead time was crap, The winder stock has got to be one of the most popular stocks on the market (hasn't it) I think in hindsight i should of sold my milanes blade and bought on of these!! http://www.maguireboats.com/default.asp?m=dp&id=76824 But i hadn't seen them before i ordered my new stock. ------------- |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 26 Jun 10 at 11:37am
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That looks like a dagger rudder. No thanks! I can't believe the pivoting Winder is any heavier, so why would you pay a higher price and have considerably more inconvenience/breakability if you hit a rock? ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 26 Jun 10 at 2:00pm
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Medway, i would think it is a fair bit lighter then the
Milanes blade and carbon winder stock. I will weight it with he blade in o see the difference. Also if i hit a rock won't my centre board be the main issue??? I actually think that dagger rudders are easier to use, no grief with the downhaul uncleating, or having to push a lock pin through, you know the blade is all the way down, no need to refill and drill the pivot hole once every couple of years, no worry of anything getting caught between the stock and blade locking the rudder half up and half down! they are simple light and effective. ------------- |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 26 Jun 10 at 5:05pm
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For sure, your Milanes blade will be heavy, but from my memory I don't think the Winder stock/blade combo is at all heavy. Having watched our resident MPS sailor crashing into the beach on many an occasion, I reckon that getting both a dagger board and dagger rudder up late enough is a bit tricky! Just getting to the blade and pulling it up in time seems to be a challenge, esp. if it's tight enough not to rattle in the stock. You can uncleat a pivoting rudder well in advance and it just pops up undamaged when it needs to (the Winder blade seemed to handily stick just a little when right down). Never had any problems with my Winder rudder not being fully down except when I broke the downhaul rope on a rock, but that would probably have meant a broken blade or transom with a dagger. I've never needed to fill and redrill any blade. What are you doing with it?! ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 26 Jun 10 at 6:40pm
I was talking about lifting rudders in general. My RS blades needed the pivbolt holes filling and redrilling. No problem with this as its a maintance issue, but a pain all the same. With a dagger rudder you can pull it up a bit at a time and still not have a loaded rudder (like you do when you partially lift a lifting version) the running into the beach scenario isn't such a problem in a phantom as you have a board up and down control and the boat is slower and more stable then a musto so you have more time! My Milanese blade is very light for a wooden sheathed blade, but not as light (i suspect) as a full carbon job) As mentioned before, if i had the choice/time again i would buy the dagger style over the traditional lifting every time. But different strokes for different folks i guess! ------------- |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 29 Jun 10 at 9:15pm
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Old broken Winder stock is now on ebay folks!! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300441988178&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300 441988178&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
If that don't work its item number: 300441988178 ------------- |