Alternative class names...
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6726
Printed Date: 25 Jan 26 at 4:20pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Alternative class names...
Posted By: allic
Subject: Alternative class names...
Date Posted: 15 May 10 at 7:56pm
|
I'm sure most of the RS400 owners will have noticed the "Gemini II, designed by Phil Morrison" plate under the foredeck. I can only assume that Gemini II is the name PM gave to the design before licensing it to RS. Can someone from RS confirm the history here? Does anyone know if there are any other successful designs out there that were conceived with different names? AlliC |
Replies:
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 15 May 10 at 8:04pm
|
Well, the Otter, which was successful for a while, started life as the Glass Bubble, and kept the sail insignia from that. The Topper went the other way, and changed the name of the company that made it, I believe. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Geoff
Date Posted: 15 May 10 at 8:48pm
| I think the RS200 has another name on a plate under the thwart but cant remember what it says, is it the Club. Was the Laser 5000 origionally called the Olympic 5000? I'm sure I read that somewhere. |
Posted By: Webmuppet
Date Posted: 15 May 10 at 8:55pm
|
The Laser Bahia originally was originally called the Aura but I think that the name was being used by another product stateside, Nigel ------------- I am the milkman of human kindness, I will leave an extra pint (Billy Bragg) Graduate 2530 'Galaxy' |
Posted By: Captain Morgan
Date Posted: 15 May 10 at 9:31pm
Thanks for that - We have a couple of relatively-regularly sailed Otters in our club, and I've always looked at the sail insignia and been stumped as to why it appears to represent a bubble, rather than anything otter-shaped! |
Posted By: Andymac
Date Posted: 16 May 10 at 1:07am
|
Didn't the 'Mirror 14' change into the 'Marauder' although it lost its signature red coloured sails (as per original Mirror dinghy) and not sure; may have had a make over in other areas as well, bit like the Laser 3000 > Vandercraft 3K. |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 16 May 10 at 9:45am
|
The Mirror 14 became the Marauder when the paper sold the copyright back to Peter Milne after he became disgruntled with the marketing of it. He then replaced the red jib with the white genoa, which was how he had originally conceived the boat. The paper slowed the boat down by putting on the jib to increase the mass appeal. The white genoa then made the boat much more of a racing boat and enabled it to sail to its handicap. Or so I'm told! I have a feeling the Contender started life as the Dorothy.....thank cod it changed... ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: Jon711
Date Posted: 16 May 10 at 10:32am
|
And yet the Bahia is an old design of Marine Toilet from the 60's made by PAR!!! Quite apt really!! |
Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: 16 May 10 at 11:11am
|
The original GRP Enterprises were know as 404s before they
were class accepted. About number 12,000 c. 1970. The Logo was similar to a Flying Fifteen except it had a 404 in it. God i'm old! |
Posted By: bornskiffyish
Date Posted: 16 May 10 at 12:47pm
dont think your quite right there, the two hull shapes are very different |
Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 16 May 10 at 12:53pm
|
------------- Wanna learn to Ski - PM me.. |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 16 May 10 at 1:16pm
Hmm, what did cod have to do with it I wonder, do they even have cod in Kansas? ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: MattK
Date Posted: 16 May 10 at 1:20pm
Nothing to do with the logo The difference in hull shape suggests they aren't versions of the same design! http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/boats/dinghy/404/ |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 16 May 10 at 3:52pm
|
Different 404... I'd forgotten what the name was, but the glass Ents were not Ents for a while, and so had to have a code name. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: 16 May 10 at 4:52pm
An Ent is 13 ft 3 which is 4.04 mtrs in French so the class simply developed the 5o5 naming concept |
Posted By: Dougal
Date Posted: 16 May 10 at 7:59pm
|
The Laser started out as the Weekender.
|
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 16 May 10 at 8:14pm
Something for the weekend?  Are you implying I'm a friend of Dorothy TT? ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 16 May 10 at 8:22pm
|
You're right, Nessa. If you believe Dougal ("Hooked on!"), Contender was the sailmaker who agreed to sort out the new sail shape for the prototype Dorothy. Now, let me think... " 'Sir' Keith Paul coaching Dorothies this weekend"... "A Bonezzi-built Dorothy wins the Europeans" errr.... "Simon Mussell is the fastest Dorothy in the UK!" I might be mistaken, but this certainly hasn't the same ring to it. Let's ask dorothy443 what he thinks, eh Mark?! ------------- http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC 
|
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 16 May 10 at 8:45pm
------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 17 May 10 at 10:50am
|
did the Topaz (and all it's horrible variants) start off life as the "how many people can we flog this high margin rubbish too" ...?? .......or perhaps I'm making that up ------------- Feeling sorry for vegans since it became the latest fad to claim you are one |
Posted By: Ian29937
Date Posted: 17 May 10 at 11:36am
Nothing to do with the logo The difference in hull shape suggests they aren't versions of the same design! http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/boats/dinghy/404//QUOTE - http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/boats/dinghy/404/[/QUOTE ] I'm not sure what the boat on the Noble website is, but I'm 95% sure the original glass Ents were called 404's. Ian |
Posted By: I luv Wight
Date Posted: 17 May 10 at 11:47am
|
The 4o4 was a super-LARK - the same hull as a LARK with a updated deck and rig. Built by Parkers ( LARK builder at the time ). It was designed for the 'youth boat trials' ~ 1990? - the selected boat was the Hobie 4o5. ------------- " rel="nofollow - http://www.bloodaxeboats.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.bloodaxeboats.co.uk Andy P foiling Int Moth GBR3467 Freedom 21 Codling |
Posted By: tj90
Date Posted: 17 May 10 at 12:26pm
|
The 5000 was at some point the Warsash 5000. It was designed and tested there before laser took over. ------------- Laser 5000 - 5113 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 17 May 10 at 12:52pm
|
The corrolary of this topic would be how often the same name has been used for different classes...
I know of three varieties of Javelin worldwide, and two Cherubs. There must be others : suggestions? Two 404s in the UK, albeit in different decades is the only example that immediately springs to mind of the same name being used for different classes in the same country, but I bet there are more, especially if you added low production run cruisers to the list. |
Posted By: Chris 249
Date Posted: 17 May 10 at 1:03pm
| I'm fairly sure the original glass Ents were 404s. There may have been another 404, as well. |
Posted By: Martin Wadhams
Date Posted: 17 May 10 at 1:18pm
|
------------- Martin Wadhams Managing Director RS Sailing |
Posted By: allic
Date Posted: 17 May 10 at 1:23pm
|
Interesting stuff especially about the Dorothy. I was thinking about posting a recipricol topic - should any exisitng classes change their name to something that better describes the boat. However i've been told only trouble lies in that direction!
|
Posted By: Laser 173312
Date Posted: 17 May 10 at 1:24pm
|
The Spark became the Dart 15 and is now known as a Sprint 15.
------------- |
Posted By: MerlinMags
Date Posted: 17 May 10 at 1:58pm
|
Of course, to get really nerdy about name changes, I could point out that the Merlin Rocket was originally the Merlin, and amalgamated with the Rocket class.
The O'pen Bic is an interesting name. Please tell me it isn't just a terrible pun about ballpoints... |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 17 May 10 at 3:32pm
|
I think it IS just a terrible pun about ballpoints. It is after all the same company as the surfboard razor and pen manufacturer. ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: Ian29937
Date Posted: 17 May 10 at 4:13pm
| It's a French name - why would they bother with an English language pun? |
Posted By: gary145
Date Posted: 18 May 10 at 12:12am
Thats interesting! because I owned one of the original Gemini dinghies (003) for a short while in the 1980s it was the best £200 i ever spent! 16 foot long, bit like a narrow 505 but with a tall rig and huge tall symmetric kite. twin trapeze too !! It was painted all white, I think so that the construction costs could be kept down with no fancy woodwork showing. My god it was heavy and tippy downwind but great fun.We drilled a couple of holes in the thwart to hold the toolkit so we could lash things back together on the way round. I'll see if I can find a photo. In fact I think I know where the hull of number 002 is! ------------- |
Posted By: allic
Date Posted: 18 May 10 at 1:10pm
Aha - The forerunner to the RS400 - in name at least! |
Posted By: Bootscooter
Date Posted: 18 May 10 at 1:51pm
Cor! I'd like to see those pics. ------------- |
Posted By: zippyRN
Date Posted: 22 May 10 at 11:36am
the 404 linked from the noble site is the 404 that was in the youth double hander competition that saw the 405 adopted and Hobiefied wasn't that 404 Parker's offering ? what else was in that competition l'equipe (french and very much as baby FD iirc with a genoa almost as big as the main) , 404 and 405 and some others |
Posted By: zippyRN
Date Posted: 22 May 10 at 11:38am
wasn't the 405 aimed at a younger age group to stop the cadet class practice of a max age helm effectively single handing it and a foetus as crew the problem was the crew weight ranges for the 405 and 420 overlapped somewhat in and inthe days of the 470 + FD as the olympic double handers the asy 405 was a litte out of step ... this is however a bloody long time ago my little ferrets ! |
Posted By: patj
Date Posted: 24 May 10 at 7:08pm
|
The Jollyboat - should have been the Fairey Barracuda. Think elongated Albacore with kite and trapeze. |
Posted By: rogerd
Date Posted: 24 May 10 at 9:32pm
Even faster than an Albacore!!! |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 26 May 10 at 2:20pm
|
On the subject of changing names to something that better describes....how about (tongue firmly in cheek) the following? Phantom = All day breakfast? Merlin = Barrister-mobile Finn = fois gras? D-One = marmite? Dragon = stately home? Tornado = bl%%dy quick RS100 = forumite ------------- Feeling sorry for vegans since it became the latest fad to claim you are one |
Posted By: charlie w
Date Posted: 27 May 10 at 3:53am
|
the 505 was originally called a "Caneton", and as a previous poster on this thread says was renamed when one of he french atlantic clubs (was it La Rochelle or la Baule?) asked for a shorter version to be produced for them to use locally. The Caneton was 19 feet long, I think and a sortof cross between an FD, and an National 18. So they shortened the design, kept the flared gunwhales and it ended 5.05 metres in length. ------------- Quality never goes out of fashion. |
Posted By: Chris 249
Date Posted: 27 May 10 at 7:08am
|
Yes, the 505's predecessor was the Coronet, an 18 footer that was designed as something a bit like a stretched 14 (the back end is like a Westell 14, with a longer bow). His own writing doesn't mention any N18 involvement. Instead, he arrived at the 18' length because it was a compromise between the long FD-type Euro boats and the UK style of boat. The Caneton class was a development class, 5.05m long. Most of them were hard chined and in the IYRU trials they did quite well, but were not up to the standard of the newer boats. The Caneton class was also concerned that development classes were becoming too expensive. They therefore asked Westell to cut the Coronet down into a one-design boat (changing the shape of the flare as they did so) that would fit the Caneton class rules, and called it the Caneton Rapide for a little while. Most of this information comes from Westell's own writing about the boat, and from contemporary mags. |
Posted By: Chris 249
Date Posted: 27 May 10 at 7:26am
Contender wasn't a sailmaker, but a sailcloth manufacturer. They didn't sort out the sail shape, because Ben Lexcen/Bob Miller and his business partner Craig Whitworth (who sailed the Contender in one of the trials) were sailmakers themselves. Contender sponsored the boat's trips to Europe in exchange for having it named after them. I think the original logo on the hard-chine proto was a roundel with a 'dart' through it, but I've never heard anything about a "Dorothy" name. The above info comes from discussions with Carl Ryves (who sailed the Contender in the other trials) and Whitworth, viewing the Super 8 film of the prototype's first sail, and old mags.
|