at the end of this year i will be old enoth to sail when i like at my club and i will want somthing that i can have fun in on satadays when i am not racing i will have arond 2500 to spend and i want somthing that will not loss to much money but evary boat loss a bit and also it needs to be one man i am thinking on the lines of contender inter moth and things like that what do you think

I reakon a laser vortex would suite you well. If you want simple single handed trapezing, there is nothing like it. They seem to hold there value qutie well and you could probebly pick one up for around £2000.

Int moth - you can get a decent carbon one with a carbon rig for around £1k, and then the foils from full force will be around £1k - and ul have £500 left to buy a new sail!

Conainer (contender), dey r ok - provided you are an ape, or have at least 12 ppl to help HAUL it up the slipway!!

I know Int Moths are less of an ultra-lightweight's boat than they were a few years back but even so, sorry but you sound a bit big for a Moth. Rohan Veal, who ought to know, reckons the top weight for a Mothist is 80kg - see http://www.rohanveal.com/moth.html - http://www.rohanveal.com/moth.html

Contender, on the other hand, could be a good match for you as you continue to grow.

At 75kgs you've got quite a choice. Top Vortex sailors are around that size (And looking at reports on this site, they average about 30 at the Nationals, 20 - 25 at series events). If you sail inland a Contender would be ok - and especially if you're growing.  Same applies to an MPS - but probably a bit outside your budget.

Best advice is to make a shortlist and then actually test sail all you're interested in.

Are there any suitable fleets near you? I.E. if there's a fleet of Contenders at your club go for that.

Of course, you'd probably be better off getting a Laser and sailing in good fleets until you've got all the skills and tactics needed and only then moving on to a trapeze class. Another possibility - crew for someone good in a trapeze boat - Fireball, 470, Hornet, etc - Some of the best helms were crews or have had a stint in the front end (and you might end up getting someone else to pay for the boat!)

Well try out all likely classes and then make up your own mind - All here will just promote their own favorites to you !  I would suggest therefore that you try a Blaze - plenty of power, fast, relatively forgiving and a lot of fun.  If you are going to be heavier than say 95kg think about a Phantom - lighter than 70kg then a Moth if very daring.  There's plenty of choice so try them all.

Mike - Blaze '720'

if i see a good boat i may sell my 29er soner to get it

what hapens with the rigs is it the same handy cap for both of the rigs

how much will a good boat be that i can race and be competative

it was a 29er i got and i can not get a helm so i am going to stik with one man boats

i have not had a go yet but i would like a go and i sail at graham which is a slight problem there are non there to race so i would have to go in the hady cap fleet if i raced it

Lol u know i meant 29er

I duno u seem to b very set on the 300. it  looks quite a good boat, tho iv only seen it sailed once. gofor it.

i have nothing to lose

dose any one want a 29er

yer they are grat i have not sailed one yet has anyone got one i can have a go in

they are cheeper than you think you can get a cheep one for about 1800

I bought one in november, it takes a while to get used to but its an absolute joy to sail, bulletproof construction from RS and very good at keeping their value.

Try it, you'll wonder why you'd even consider a laser

visit http://www.rs300.com - www.rs300.com for loads of great hints and tips

I think like alot of recent single handers (vortex), the 300 is based on a 70's moth design.

From the few times i've been out in my 300, i've learnt more about trim and balance than i ever did in the 505.  Doesn't give you much of a rest when its a bit breezy tho!

Sure, i need to get up to H.burgh before july, maybe at one of the bank holidays.

Have to think of a decent boat name too:

current thought is exocet (smaller version of SCUD missile!)

Any ideas?

Thats quite good, might steal it, its better than RS bandit, which the little brother want's it to be called, threatened to take a magic marker to the hull...

Test sail them all.

Don't decide until you've done that.

Vortex are at Rutland this weekend  - quite close to you - go and ask for a sail. RS300 at Lee on Solent 14/15 May.-plenty of time to arrange a test. Contenders have a big circuit, Blaze quite good.etc etc.

Unless you're happy to sail on your own at your club, check whether they have a series of events that you can actually afford to do (sailing them on your own might prove dull).

If you do just want a challenge and to develop your sailing skill, and don't mind having small fleets, consider a secondhand Int Canoe or Moth. (less likely to be offered a test sail in one of these)!

Shud av sed:

You also have to decide a fundamental - do you want to hike or trapeze (or sliding seat/hike).

No point in Rs300 if you want to have a change from hiking your Laser. No point in Vortex if you prefer to hike. No point in an IC unless you like getting wet, a challenge and can afford a crash helmet!

http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/photos/?s=64&PID=2436"> The box is a link to another photo.

The advice remains  - Sail them all before you decide.

I have nothing against the 300 and of course you might jump in it and love it. Or - you might not enjoy it and wish you'd test sailed it first!

You could for instance afford a secondhand Contender - they have better circuit than the 300 and you could develop your trapeze skills - Could be the one for you but without trying it you'll never know.  So how do you know how the Vortex feels when sailing without trying it? Are you sure the Blaze isn't a better bet for you?  What about a canoe?

Sounds like you bought the 29er without fully thinking it through (no crew). You're very obviously keen but short of cash - can you afford to risk making a mistake by basing your decision on a good sales pitch and not sailing the boat?

Hector is right - it costs nothing to try them all.  All contributers inevitably have their favorite to promote.  But you have to ask yourself this simple question - "When did they last sail all or any of the alternatives ?"  

Take your time, keep your money in your pocket for a while and get what is right for you.  Sailing other classes occasionally can be highly informative even for those who are not going to switch classes !

Good luck -  Mike L. - Blaze Class Association

i guy at our club pich poled his an it stuck verticaly in the mud n stayed there!!!

t'was a bit of a laugh.

try crewing a fireball, put a ad on site as a crew available for the worlds (teignmouth) then ya get that big fleet experience an see if you like the boat.

http://www.fireball-dinghy.org.uk - www.fireball-dinghy.org.uk

P.S

theres 270+ boats expected

Stuff the Vortex, go for the 600, leads  onto bigger and better things! A lot of people I know have sold their Vortexs and went into MPS, back to Lasers or into 600s. Rumours are Laser have ceased Vortex production too. I'd like a 600 myself for when I'm crewless, and thats for very good reasons......

Don't you just love it when people start using one example as proof that something is fact.

A Vortex faster than a 49er? - no of course not.

But is it impossible that (say) a well sailed 29er couldn't go faster than a poorly sailed 49er - especially offwind when he might be in a gust and the 49er not. I'll admit it's a stretch but thats the sort of thing Carsholton says he saw. Under the right circumstances it's perfectly possible to blast past many a 'faster' boat (including Cherubs and Laser 4000s). Bet you've all done it.

In the same vein, just 'cos you blasted past a kited Vortex doesn't mean much -how good was the guy?  Also, a look on their website reveals they have only just finished the development of the kite, ending up with a 15m2 beast as opposed to the 10.5 they started with. They are all on a learning curve and will no doubt get quicker. 

DW please don't use inflamatory language - and just because a 'lot of people' you know have changed class doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the original class. I know stacks of people who used to sail Laser 1s and now sail RS200, 400 800 MPS 49er Mirror, Fireball and even Vortex. Just cos they changed it doesn't follow that there's anything wrong with the Laser 1.

They may change for better local competition, for a bigger challenge or any number of reasons.

Back to the subject, 5420 - the RS600 is a great boat - a bit tippy, but if you want a challenge it will certainly provide it. Still not sure why you're not considering the Contender - it was one of your original listed possibles, has a good open circuit and can be bought very cheap.

Didn't realise I was using inflamitory language (sorry)... Have to agree with what your saying about boat speed. I could never say that a 4000 or 29er is faster in a straight line than a 49er in exactly the same wind, but remember the 4000 and 29er are easier to get round the course and hence they can get round the course quicker in some situations. The 4000 would come into its own in big winds whilst we (in the 49er) are swimming or in the bar. Saying that, once we really get on top of the boat, the tables will turn 

Originally posted by 49erGBR735HSC GOOD STUFF!!!!!

That's either very funny or very childish, my simple mind is struggling to decide!

5420 are you just taking the michael? So far you've 'decided' to go for at least two (possibly more) classes boats - so far. All without test sailing.

I bet you're a 55 year old who just likes winding us up and watching how it all develops.

i keep changing my mind on which i like the look of most as i find out more info but i will mack shore i test sail them ferst

i like the look of the 600  at the moment i have saild one before

One of the things you wanted was an open circuit with some competition in terms of numbers.

Now that the first batch of early season opens are over, you can see from Y&Y reports the attendances for some of the classes you've shown interest in.

Most numerous is the evergreen Contender with around 40 at Oxford. So the one that you could probably pick up cheapest and which undoubtably has the biggest circuit is apparently best supported!

Next were the Vortex who despite your thought that they "do not have much of a fleet" had  24 out at Rutland. Most of them were asymmetric

The RS 600 had 11or was it 12  at Chew Valley - and about the same at Datchet.

The RS 300 had I believe 8 At Queen Mary. (Always harder to find  actual attendance when its low as the class rarely tells youso you have to dig a little).

Sorry to Blaze, and others I haven't mentioned but bearing in mind he already has a Laser, I think your no doubt excellent boat will not offer 5420 the contrast in sailing he seems to want.

5420, it seems to me that you need to be sure what you want from this extra boat. If you're going to do your main racing in your Laser, and just want to 'blast' at your club in the other boat, then how much competition there is doesn't matter. If competition in numbers does matter - look for a class that will provide both that and the blasting element you want

rite, im 16, 6' 2" and weigh 10 an a bit stone ok, i got a moth last year and have not regretted it at all, ive spent in all about a grand on my first moth, and ive managed to get a narrow moth hull (carbon foam sandwich), carbon angell mast, needlespar alloy mast, carbon boom , compass, carbon mount, alloy wings with caws tramps, all new spectra and dyneema cordage, carbon prodder (weird moth spreaders) alloy gantry (extension at back for rudder), carbon T-foil rudder to pin the back end down, carbon daggerboard and a super lightweight launching trolley. aswell as a fitted cover from purple. all mint. and well worth it. fast as!!!! uneed to try one man and for the record, the hydro foils cost £1500 minimum , probably more, and you still need to convert your boat, so go for non foiling first to learn to sail them cos they are well worth it with gr8 handicaps!!!

Sorry to Blaze, and others I haven't mentioned but bearing in mind he already has a Laser, I think your no doubt excellent boat will not offer 5420 the contrast in sailing he seems to want .....

Hector - Now even you are doing it !!  you might be right but costs nothing to have a go first - there is more than a slight contrast between a Laser and a Blaze and half a dozen other possibles apparently discounted.  Try them all was the advice.  But if it really is down to the 600 and Contender I'd go for the Contender  everytime - but then I have sailed both  ! 

Cheers - Blaze 720

money isnt needed 2 try you jus need conections an im sure between all on this forum anyone could try any boat