Sailing without battens
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Banter
Forum Discription: For all those non-sailing related discussions
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6294
Printed Date: 12 Aug 25 at 11:52pm
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Topic: Sailing without battens
Posted By: ellistine
Subject: Sailing without battens
Date Posted: 30 Dec 09 at 8:08am
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Would a boat with fully battened main and jib still sail
sensibly if you removed the battens? I was wondering if it might make the boat a bit more manageable while we get used to it. |
Replies:
Posted By: giraffe
Date Posted: 30 Dec 09 at 8:15am
| i would expect that the battens would be needed by the sail design and would probably prolong the life of the sail too. I doubt that it is a good idea but why not try it and answer your own question. |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 30 Dec 09 at 8:24am
Rather the reverse I would have thought. And I would bet it would damage the sails. Sail with plenty of twist in the rig and you'll have less power and a less on off rig without doing anything dubious. OK I've been sailing with them for something like thirty five years, but I really don't get this stuff about full battened sails being difficult to manage. When was the last time you heard a Solo sailor coming ashore cursing about how difficult his rig is to manage. Doesn't happen to my knowledge! |
Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 30 Dec 09 at 8:44am
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Like JimC I would say that it would make it more difficult to sail. If your talking about the 4K the easiest way to make it more manageable is actually to sail it full on. This might sound funny but if you do it does make it easier to sail. ------------- 49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)! http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country |
Posted By: ellistine
Date Posted: 30 Dec 09 at 8:56am
Ironically it's not so much the sailing that's the problem. It's the launching, landing and generally shunting the boat about with the sails up. There doesn't seem to be an off switch on it without dropping the main and switching to a daggerboard hasn't helped us. If we weren't so stressed about getting out and in again it would be easier to get used to. I'll have to get me some brave pills. ------------- |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 30 Dec 09 at 9:11am
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Landing...
My favorite technique for coming onto any kind of lee shore is hove to with the jib firmly backed. Foils most of the way up and she'll slip in sideways with no bother. Daggerboard rudder does help enormously though. Try it out on the water to get an idea of the angle of drift. |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 30 Dec 09 at 9:11am
| So how and where are you launching the boat? Maybe we can help out there with some more techniques, not so specific to the 4k? I must say that launching and recovery is something taken for granted by sailors on less restricted access areas! |
Posted By: ellistine
Date Posted: 30 Dec 09 at 9:33am
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How embarrassing is this - We sailed out of WPNSA. Do
slips get any bigger? Our usual launch routine is for me to hold the boat flat while the crew climbs aboard. I then grab the tiller and main sheet, throw a leg over the side and push off which has never been a problem in the Vago. In the 4K we launched of the North slip into the wind. Before I had chance to climb in the jib pulled the bow around and raced off along the slip with me running after it. I just managed to stop it running aground. Second attempt was a bit more successful and we got going. Because I didn't fancy landing straight downwind I came in on the east facing slip on a beam reach. All was good until my crew lifted out the daggerboard. At the point we shot off sideways towards the rocks and I had to crash capsize to avoid an impact. My crew had already jumped out into 7' of water to try and catch the boat. That hadn't worked either! In hindsight I think I should have launched and landed of the east slip and perhaps sailed past it for the landing returning to it on a close haul. At least that way we would have drifted onto the slip once the plate was lifted. I also think we need to look at how much plate we can leave down without it hitting the bottom. I might also experiment with dropping the main and coming in on the jib but we never managed it in the Vago through lack of space and I can't see the 4K being much better. Come the next season we'll be sailing out of Castle Cove again. It tends to be more sheltered there but also a lot shallow for a lot longer. It's far less stressful in a plastic boat you know! ------------- |
Posted By: Quagers
Date Posted: 30 Dec 09 at 9:55am
| We tend to put the helm in 1st, he gets everything ready, stands on the leward side then the crew gives the nose a push and comes in infront of the racks. The advantage is the crew can keep it head to wind much easier from further forward and the moment they let go the helm has control. Cant help with landing as this always seems to be abit hairy for us. |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 30 Dec 09 at 10:04am
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for lee shores, as long as you've got enough space, being able to drop the main into the boat and sail in under jib alone is a perfectly valid technique- we use it a lot in the b14. ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 30 Dec 09 at 11:54am
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Sailing without the battens would be horrible. Sadly, once you have followed the advice on here, practice is the only way! ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: asterix
Date Posted: 30 Dec 09 at 12:50pm
| I realise this probably isn't quite so critical as in the 4000 or for other fully battened sails, but I sailed a laser 1 with no battens recently. Although it sailed OK on most points of sail, upwind there was no way to tension the leech so it just flapped continuously (not quite flogging but...) and wasnt great. |
Posted By: Rockhopper
Date Posted: 30 Dec 09 at 1:07pm
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we sail straight off the beach in our 5000 the way we do it is crew in first he gets the plate in puts the rudder down and gets the jib ready to unfurl what ever you do dont put any kicker on untill you get into the boat as this powers the boat up same for coming in let the kicker right off before you come only this time crew out first just after he has got the plate out we used the same way when we had a 4000 and it was no problem.Just remember to let the kicker off and the main right out and turn right up head to wind at the last mintue.
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Posted By: Lukepiewalker
Date Posted: 30 Dec 09 at 1:45pm
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Without battens the balance would be off, and the drag from the flapping sail would be considerable. So handling would probably be interesting.
------------- Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard" Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch" Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air" Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile" |
Posted By: English Dave
Date Posted: 30 Dec 09 at 2:26pm
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Make sure you have cunningham off when ashore. Although you
might think that the cunningham would depower the sail by flattening it, the reality (until you are sailing along) is different. I forget why ------------- English Dave http://www.ballyholme.com - Ballyholme Yacht Club (You'd think I'd be better at it by now) Hurricane 5.9 SX RS700 |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 30 Dec 09 at 3:28pm
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For getting the 600 back into the harbour at Hill Head, with the wind SW (i.e. blowing across the entrance but straight onto the slipway (look for Hill Head on google maps, the one in the solent, my boat is in the dinghy park near the club house, it will make sense then)) I drop the main halfway well outside and upwind of the club house, and sail in on half a mainsail, sheeting in by pulling on one of the battens if necessary, then once past the breakwater i pull all the main into the boat and let the boat drift in on its momentum. If you can't sail the 4k in on just the jib then I recomend trying something like this. Just make sure to leave a lot more space downwind than you think you need to drop the main. ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: FireballNeil
Date Posted: 30 Dec 09 at 5:22pm
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I would just say make sure there is no kicker on
whatsoever, and get the crew to hold the boat and hop in, you need to steer and do mainsheet! also much harder to get in the back of most boats ------------- Neil 
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Posted By: Skiffybob
Date Posted: 30 Dec 09 at 6:06pm
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A good technique for coming in with the wind up your backside is to spin the boat pretty-much into wind about 100yds off the beach, let the jib go, get the board right out. Then if you put the boat onto the beam and push the tiller all the way away from you (this stops the wind pointing the boat dead downwind again), she'll slide in sideways, and you use the main (grab i stright of the boom), to keep it all stable. If you need bit of forwards at any point, just pop a foot of the daggerboard back in for a few seconds. ------------- 12ft Skiff - Gordon Keeble and the Furry Fly-by AC - GBR271 - Whoosh B49 - Island Alchemy |
Posted By: ellistine
Date Posted: 30 Dec 09 at 6:12pm
That sounds funky! ------------- |
Posted By: neilgb
Date Posted: 31 Dec 09 at 10:54am
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Launching....get everything ready, crew just forward of
the rack, helm climb in over the stern and get organised, rig depowered, sheet in jib to bear away and then when ready power up the main... Don't take the battens out, use the sail controls to de power with steering..you will find that power is your friend and the 4000 is far kinder than the Vago when you have the confidence to power up Lee shore... keep it simple and stick to basics....drop the main !..unless you know what you are doing the handbrake turn is doomed to failure particularly with a daggerboard and fully battened main! Get on to the 4000 class association they will give you lots of help. The above has worked for me in my ISO/5000 and we have failed trying lots of different methods ! Good luck |
Posted By: Skiffybob
Date Posted: 31 Dec 09 at 11:24am
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I never think about dropping the main, probably because we can't. So it's the "handbrake turn" for us every time. It's certainly the easiest answer if you can drop it. Agree with Neil on the launch method. Crew holds the boat by the windward shroud and you get in over the back. Get the board half way down, and when you're ready for the off, sheet the jib in, heel the boat to windward (helps the crew get in and also bears the bow away), then the crew pushes the nose offwind, and clambers in, then bring the boat flat and use the main to keep the boat stable while you get sorted and get your foils down. Don't pull the kicker on until you're both settled and ready to sail it properly, otherwise you'll struggle with the power on/off switch. ------------- 12ft Skiff - Gordon Keeble and the Furry Fly-by AC - GBR271 - Whoosh B49 - Island Alchemy |
Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 31 Dec 09 at 1:34pm
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Fully battend sails power up as you add Cunningham / downhaul and kicker if you have it. The least power will be with zero DH / Cunningham. ------------- Wanna learn to Ski - PM me.. |
Posted By: FireballNeil
Date Posted: 31 Dec 09 at 2:40pm
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I prefer keeping a foot of board (or as little as you can
without it fouling the boom too much) down all the way in, the crew can jump out in waist deep water and then the helm pulls the db out and gets the rudder properly up and out the way. I've only once had a problem with that, being slightly over ambitious and wiping out!  ------------- Neil
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