Racing Classes Review
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6117
Printed Date: 25 Jan 26 at 4:20pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Racing Classes Review
Posted By: Guest
Subject: Racing Classes Review
Date Posted: 10 Nov 09 at 1:28pm
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... shame this year it's part of the magazine. I was building up a bit of a library of previous years versions. I guess I will just keep this magazine. Not read it yet but usually some interesting facts. On first glance there seems to be a bit more data than previous versions.
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Replies:
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 10 Nov 09 at 1:48pm
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I also kep the separate issues. I would take them along to end of Level 2 courses so the students could see the vast array of dinghies they could choose from. But where is mine? Nothing in the post today.  ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 10 Nov 09 at 2:16pm
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When is the new mag out then? the picture on the left looks like last months?! ------------- |
Posted By: Rockhopper
Date Posted: 10 Nov 09 at 2:35pm
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I had to write the bit out for the vareos so i hope it looks ok. ------------- Retired now after 35 seasons in a row and time for a rest. 2004 national champ Laser5000 2007,2010,National Champ Rs Vareo |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 10 Nov 09 at 2:47pm
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Ha ... the old "Sex Face" photo is on page 128
------------- |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 10 Nov 09 at 2:48pm
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Yep; looks fine. I was surprised to read that there has been 27 new Varios sold into the UK this year. Class must be on the up ... ------------- |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 10 Nov 09 at 4:38pm
or Rockhopper's mum is wondering what she's meant to do with them all now...
------------- Feeling sorry for vegans since it became the latest fad to claim you are one |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 10 Nov 09 at 9:01pm
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The Y&Y web site needs updating, they are still adverising the old mag! I will buy the new edition tomorrow!
Oh and cheers for that Rick! ------------- |
Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 10 Nov 09 at 11:31pm
The December mag hits the shelves on Thursday 
------------- Needs to sail more... |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 11 Nov 09 at 9:15am
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Got mine in the post yesterday Amazed by the number of Solos & Laser 2000 sold into the UK this year. ------------- |
Posted By: MerlinMags
Date Posted: 11 Nov 09 at 9:59am
| I haven't updated the site yet as Thursday is the official release day. I know subscribers often get their copies a day or two early, but I don't like to advertise the new cover/contents until people can go to WH SMiths and buy it. |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 11 Nov 09 at 10:36am
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Nice picture of an 18ft Skiff on the cover ... subscription is the way to go ------------- |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 11 Nov 09 at 10:39am
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Mine arrived today! Clearly Kent has a better postal service than Cambridge!
------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 11 Nov 09 at 10:57am
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Hopefully mine's at home too then. Certainly didn't get it yesterday.
------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: womble12345
Date Posted: 12 Nov 09 at 7:27am
| I was surprised there were only 36 new RS200s this year, just a few years ago they were chucking out about 100 a year, is the market saturated already or are they still suffering due to the poor quality hulls that were made when production was out in Brazil? |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 12 Nov 09 at 8:42am
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I think that racing classes thing is a ridiculous assessment of the market
if indeed that's what it is intended as. It perpetuates ancient dross like fireballs, merlins, cadets ffs What relevance are they to modern thinking sailors like me for instance? It's no wonder this market is the shambles that it is. Having to wait eons for new boats, no continuity or standardization of key fittings. I'm also whilst in full rant very disappointed with the mag this month the Blaze nationals review didn't have any pictures and no mention of the 'incident' and controversy that rocked the event with one of the class builders fielding a special foil or whatever it was that wound them all up. Then there's still no mention of the Alto (for example) in that listing, how the hell are you going to get new stuff accepted? O.K. so it's not yet a racing class, but surely there must be some form of 'other stuff that's race capable" as a secondary list, and there are still too many stories about lead mines.. I did get it yesterday though, the digital thing is working well, no improvement on the classifieds yet though.. ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 12 Nov 09 at 9:05am
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It wouldn't be much of a review if it didn't cover some of the most popular classes in the UK would it ... ------------- |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 12 Nov 09 at 9:32am
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The reports and pictures are sent in by people in the class. If Y&Y doesn't get them, they can't print them. Same goes for classes in the review. As for not including old classes, this isn't windsurfing, where kit is thrown away if it is last year's colours, it is a proper competitive sport where the equipment is used to create a level playing field, not to pull babes on the beach. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 12 Nov 09 at 9:42am
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It's not the pulling babe on the beach factor, it's the progress inhibition that
is endemic in the 'class' system. There are lots of modern trends going on, dont use windsurfing as an example windsurfing is also inhibited by the fact that it is/was the b**tard child of sailing in the first place and is still governed as such. So getting back to the Nationals thing they are only ever reported by the class then? Hah that's going to get some really incisive reports. Whatever. It is what it is, and it's clearly not going anywhere fast. ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: Mikey 14778
Date Posted: 12 Nov 09 at 9:55am
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Grumpf, the notable thing about progress is that it makes most of our kit obsolete and we have to throw it away.
This is not conducive to building big fleets. The non-progressive classes (or 'dross') like the Fireball are only as big as they are because the boats remain viable in racing terms for 20 years or more. Personally I would rather race every weekend in a Fireball with about 12 other boats at my club than buy a new cutting edge boat every year and race it against one or two others (if I'm lucky) or have to trail it round the countryside to get some competition. It's too expensive and too much like hard work. Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favour of progress. But it's just a fact of life that you won't get mainstream acceptance and big numbers of anything where the pace of change is significant. ------------- http://www.fireballsailing.org.uk/register/boat_info.php?sail_no=14778 - Fireball 14778 - 'Cruel and Unusual' http://www.draycotewater.co.uk - Draycote Water, fantastic ! |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 12 Nov 09 at 9:56am
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Every equipment sport has rules that govern the equipment ... ... for example the UCI has a minimum weight rules on bikes and limits the aero ration of tubes to 3:1 ... plus the wheels have to be the same size ... Many would say that inhibits progress but it also controls costs and creates a level playing field, In sailing we are lucky we have choice ... there are a number of development classes out there which encourage progress and free thinking; why don't you just get into one of those and quit your constant moaning; it's very dull. ------------- |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 12 Nov 09 at 10:07am
Might just be happenstance... Be interesting to see what happens next year: you can'tt read too much into a single year. But there is a definite SMOD lifespan of excitement, big initial numbers then a tailing off into slow oblivion. You can see the start of that process with the mad enthusiasm here for this RS100. One thing I would observe though is that long term class lifespan tends to depend more than anything else of the enthusiasm and capability of the Class management. The revival of the Scorpion in recent years is a good example of how that works. Maybe being under the banner of a big manufacturer has disadvantages as well as advantages in that respect?
Please No! In any case it wouldn't help. Complaints would simply be replaced by complaints about the rules being too restrictive. There's a long standing problem you see with people who think that rule changes constitute developnment, whereas in fact they halt it by effectively making everyone start again with what is in reality a new class. |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 12 Nov 09 at 10:35am
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I personally believe this is the most important element of any class; the equipment is far less significant than the attitudes and enthusiasm of the members and their committee. So if you want your class to thrive ask yourself what you are doing to help that... ------------- |
Posted By: Dan Vincent
Date Posted: 12 Nov 09 at 12:07pm
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GRF - I thought you were one of the original proponents and importers of the Kona boards. Isn't that a strict one-design class with rules? And wasn't that a reaction to the difficult to sail Formula Windsurfing racing, by controlling the class with rules you have made a class that is far less about equipment and far more about sailing (a good thing for windsurfing in my opinion) How do you see that evolving in the future? Maybe in the future Kona's will have sold enough to be present at clubs throughout the country (bit like Fireballs and Enterpises now). |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 12 Nov 09 at 4:32pm
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Low-quality drivel from some contibutors I see, this is a bit like A-levels, some bright spark comes up with similar do-do each year about the RCR. Personally, I quite like it, there isn't another listing anywhere else like it I've ever seen and while it's not complete and does include some mistakes, it's the only listing of classes allowing a decent comparison of specs, numbers, class "health" and winners.. we have soooo many classes in the UK that it's probably one of the most thank-less tasks in the Y&Y office putting this together - well done to whoever grasped the nettle this year! ------------- Feeling sorry for vegans since it became the latest fad to claim you are one |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 12 Nov 09 at 5:17pm
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I was one of the original proponents of the Windsurfer Class, ran the
class mag that's how it all started. The Windsurfer and the Laser were priced similarly about 500 for the windsurfer 600 for the laser. The windsurfer eventually did evolve, but too late for the evolution of the whole sport. It's not fair to really compare windsurfing with sailing because it became a new diversion in as much as it was more fun to do without rules and strictures of a course so off it went on many tangents. But the Kona I did hope might return racing to club level and indeed am still hopeful of getting a Kona to the dinghy show. But we did have the benefit of Strict One Design AND 'Open Class' and its this I feel is missing. A set of 'box' rules for single handers to develop within. Trap or none trap, then I guess it would get cleaned up by foils and it's already too late... I just see things like the boat I'm using held back because of a myopic view of the class. Had the Blaze kited up last year, or the year before that in fact, when it was first mooted. Would there have been the demand for the 100 for instance and what future will there be for it (the blaze class) for example. Had the MPS not been so rigid, could it have been modified so lightweights could survive in it without turning full time professional. Its lots of little things that class luddism often stifles. ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 12 Nov 09 at 5:29pm
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No-one in our class is professional Iver is pretty similar to you in weight and has done very well ... if fact many lightweight have no problems. Had you started by modifing your harness so the hook was the right way up you'd have found the hand that was constantly used to hold the hook on quite useful for sailing the boat ... two hands are better than one as it's often useful to be able to adjust the sail trim & steer at the same time. ------------- |
Posted By: blaze720
Date Posted: 12 Nov 09 at 6:30pm
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GRF "if only etc" ..... We made the very valid decision that we were not going to sacrifice the Blaze class and put a spinnaker on it ... There are a majority out there who do not want a spinnaker and that view extends beyond our current owners bar a small minority - and that is where our positioning remains ! - for a host of good reasons both technical and commercial we are not going to leave the simple single sail concept for Blaze/Halo. You may as well ask why the Phantom or Solo or Laser don't 'see the light' as well .... As has been said before we have and are looking at the 2 sail + sit-down segment as it emerges but will not do it with the Blaze hull - but all the Blaze/Halo systems maybe (rig/foils/wings) on a very specific hull we are looking at but not with the current hull. But before that we have other fish to fry of course .... ;-) Mike L. PS - In the meantime I'd go on the 'beer n pasta' now for next year diet with your choice ..... you really need 'proper' wings you know ! |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 12 Nov 09 at 6:45pm
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Grumpf, just give up on the kite on the blaze idea fella! There is no WAY they will admit it should of been developed instead of the bigger rig! Now the 100 and D-one seem to of taken off, admitting we were right and they were wrong ain't going to happen! At least you can shout i told you so when you get a copy of racing classes review next year and look at the like for like sales figures!! ------------- |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 12 Nov 09 at 6:59pm
And what makes you think that the Blaze is suitable for an asymettric? The Blaze is the only survivor of those first generation Topper boats, all the ones with spinnakers are at one with the Norwegian Blue... Do you really think a half ass conversion is going to be as good as a boat designed for the job? |
Posted By: blaze720
Date Posted: 12 Nov 09 at 8:35pm
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Never thought I would necessarily agree with Jim ! But he is right on this one. I'll stick my neck out now and tell you that the Blaze/Halo model would/does make a reasonable spinnaker platform - but not a great one. We tried it remember .... and concluded that primarily we wanted to plane upwind very easily, and that comes with a tall powerful long luff main and abundant leverage provided by proper wide wings or trapeze. But this rig and approach means you still have that very powerful main offwind. Then you add a large enough spinnaker to do the asymetric thing fully and guess what ... it becomes a little less easy, especialy in a reasonable wind and on typical club courses. Windward/leeward is fine. But that model is not for everybody or practical for every club. You actually need more than the 2 hands standard issue most are blessed with and/or an even more leverage. And that is around typical can type courses with a wing width of 2.48m ! The bottom line is that a lot of people will go for a spinnaker singlehander in the near future of course, but we suspect they will still be in a minority in 3 years time, in 5 years time and beyond 10 years time. When we do it, if the segment really is proven as 'the' way forward beyond initial enthusiasm, we will produce something really quite exceptional in terms of spec and performance as that boat has still to be done by anyone and the current boats may well develop/prove the potential as pioneers. But if the long term likely sustainable figures ldo look all 'Norwegian Blue' or more enthusiasm than realism we will stick to our 'wait and see' conservative guns ... we don't intent to stay a niche builder and therefore are selecting the next couple of projects with very great care. The Halo derivative is a natural incremental development of the Blaze, the spinnaker option is not, and like Devoti or RS we would develop a specific configuration including a new and specific hull if we go that way in the future. In the meantime, if only for comparitive purposes, come along and simply see what you can do with Halo. I suspect many will quickly understand why we went this way once on the water. Jim had his ++ a while back, Halo is different in many ways of course but the thinking is similar. Mike L. |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 12 Nov 09 at 11:18pm
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The same way it worked for the Canoe and the Vortex Jim. No one was asking for the Blaze to change the class rules, just to make an kite kit for it! Several people have commented that the blaze is based on a 14 Howlett hull which i am guessing would of been built with a kite??
I think you are massively missing the point Jim, the difference is an old blaze could be converted meaning its cheaper then buying a new boat, so yeas a viable option for those wanting something that ticks the boxes!
You could always say the same about your boat, is it as quick as the latest DC designs? No but I'm sure you enjoyed the conversion and enjoy sailing just as much in fact probably more! ------------- |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 12 Nov 09 at 11:53pm
The last thing any class association should be doing, especially for a numerically small class, is reducing the number of boats racing in class. If you take a small fleet and divide it in half you have two tiny fleets, no racing and very soon no class in either specification. FWIW the reason for rebuilding the IC wasn't that I didn't want a new boat, but the very pragmatic one that I couldn't get a new boat to the the shape I wanted without having even longer off the water and I wanted to go sailing. |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 12:02am
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What he said above
And, because I'd be just as bored going downhill in a Halo as I am in a Blaze, I very much regret not bunging the vareo conversion on it, but I got involved in the Autumn series which I came very close to winning (would have been the first time)then the season ran out. By next year I shall in all probability unless Steve gets well, be in the RS100 and the Blaze folk will have lost another potentially enthusiastic follower. However, I may not like what they end up with contrary to what JC thinks imo the Blaze hull needs something to keep the nose up downhill it constantly submarines, there's certainly enough volume, the rocker would respond well and the mast would take it. Less to do than have to buy an entire rig. ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: blaze720
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 1:17am
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the Blaze hull needs something to keep the nose up downhill it
constantly submarines B***ocks you really are showing a lack of boat craft and know-how now ! The reality is that if you do the wrong thing consistantly with any reasonable powerful boat you will end up wet. You should have come along to even just one meeting and you would have learnt so much - not all of it boat specific by the sound of it. If you are heading down the mine regularly you are most definately doing something very wrong. It is nothing to do with helm weight either .... We wish you luck in the future in whatever you end up with but please don't bugger around with the Blaze just sell it and enjoy your new boat (please !!) There is a real shortage of good used Blazes and you will possibly get most of your money back. And Halo would be as useful to you as a Phantom by the sounds of it - you are not the target or design weight by a country mile ! Leave Halo to the grown-ups. Oh and I was intending to be so reasonable - never mind it has to be said. Mike L. |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 7:03am
Is this not what the Halo rig will be doing? |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 8:51am
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He seems to think that all boats should be aimed at him, not me. Given that frankly there's more interesting boats that suit midgets like himself than "larger gentlemen" such as myself (especially in the double hander market), he's basically crazy. ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: blaze720
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 9:36am
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... don't quite understand. The 'crazy' bit might have always been right about me of course, don't mind that bit, but I think you'd have to see me to realise the 'midget' bit is ... well more than slightly off the mark !! The comment related to the fact that GRF was miles below the target weight for Halo (and he's light for a Blaze as well) hence the boat would hardly be likely to suit him. Or have I misunderstood you now ? We would have launched a lightweights rig by now if it was practical but it simply fell short of what worked well. Some platforms work better when the rig is scaled up, some when scaled down. Our current hull is one that takes a larger rig well but not a smaller one. Therefore we can offer the 'larger gentlemen' something new and specifically for them - so you really are welcome to come along and try. All this talk about attributes and relative advantage in different boats is interesting at one level - but ultimately the acid test is on the water. Pre-test 'marketing' and forum stuff is a poor substitute for jumping into any boat and seeing what it is all about. If you like what we are doing you will know within 15 minutes of trying and if its not for you well nothing lost. Be pleased that we have decent choice in our market - and something for everybody ! Mike L. |
Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 9:40am
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GRF - I always get gtreat enteratinment fronm your posts - whether they appear valid or not but sometime I just think : So another boat is wrong - thats the MPS, the RS 500, the Alto (or parts of it) and now the Blaze !. I personally find it difficult to really criticise aboat until I'm so good at sailing it that it is limiting me (as opposed to me limiting it - which is pretty much every boat I've owned). Until you can sail any boat to its potential its an easy cop out to moan about it's limitations and design flaws. Virtually every boat I've owned has had 'flaws' when I've bought them: RS 600 - too many to mention Contender - low boom, poor in light stuff etc Tasar - Dodgy boom spanner etc Laser - Sheet gets caught on transom etc Funnily enough all of these issues have gone when I've put the effort i to learn to sail them properly. This had normally meant spending lots of time with people who already know the class. Why not just buy a boat, learn to sail it properly (at a good circuit level) and get on enjoying it. It may then be that suddenly many of these 'design flaws' disappear when you get to sail the boat well, especially if you attend some opens and seek advice from those that can sail them already ?. I know its a controversial route (buy a boat, practise with others, learn to sail it properly) but its been used by a few people successfully in the past !
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Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 9:46am
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Rich, I couldnt agree more.
I have never really tried to windsurf but Im considering giving it a go and buying a top notch board and rig so that I can go and take part in the big events where I expect to be in the top ten as I'd consider myself to be a pretty handy dinghy sailor, after all, how hard can it be? Of course if I fail miserably I will blame GRF and all his mates for developing gear that only a midget from Kent can operate. Mike as for Als comments, I think they were aimed at GRF not you. |
Posted By: timeintheboat
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 9:54am
Agreed post rugby and never having shirked pies,A lot of the double hander boats I really enjoyed at the back end I've been too large for: Fireball, N12, Lark. As technology moves on the competitive all up weight seem to come down - Merlins, Phantoms and even Lasers. The latter when I was a lad (OK late twenties) F4+ meant 13st + weight jacket. When I was < 13st in Lasers I bulked up in the gym to 13.5st and now 500 years on 14st is the least I can realistically expect. This is probably also due to sailors realising that being fit means you can carry less weight. (Query why is it that the lard boys refuge the RS400 appears to be carrying less weight these days?) The RS100 and D-One are great - really great. If I had the funds I'd have either or both tomorrow. The D-One for the heritage, passion and quality, The RS100 for the family background, simplicity and inevitable great racing circuit. Time to buy a lotto ticket methinks. ------------- Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 11:10am
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You've misunderstood me! GRF's the mad dwarf ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 12:17pm
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I was looking through the RCR again last night and noted there were 250 new Toppers in the UK in 2009; and 879 in 2008. Given that these must be one of the most durable boats going where do they all go? ------------- |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 12:19pm
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they lie around unused in dinghy parks because kids have grown out of them and parents can't be bothered to sell them....or think thye might sail them themselves one fine day...
------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 12:20pm
I guess a lot of mad keen Topper parents must get the best for little Jonny! And many sailing schools still use them, which must add a lot. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 12:20pm
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oh, back to the RCR now eh? thank goodness this thread was going seriously off plan......
------------- Feeling sorry for vegans since it became the latest fad to claim you are one |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 12:23pm
I guess so but unlike old wooden boats that eventually get reclaimed by nature (or Nov. 5th) a boat like the Topper would last pretty much for ever ... what happens to them all? ------------- |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 12:36pm
There are some things that kill them... The plastic will shatter if impacted in very cold weather, stern (rudder fitting induced) and bow (impact) damage can induce sufficient leaks to make them excessively irritating to sail, and I imagine UV can take a toll... Presumably too at coastal venues sufficient bashing on the rocks and shingle can eventually wear through the hull. But yes, a lot get left in dinghy parks... We created a 8 boat club fleet from abandoned boats! |
Posted By: Skiffybob
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 12:43pm
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Imagine putting a Topper out with the bins for the recycle truck. That would be outstanding ------------- 12ft Skiff - Gordon Keeble and the Furry Fly-by AC - GBR271 - Whoosh B49 - Island Alchemy |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 12:56pm
------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 12:59pm
Imagine getting 1/2 way through the job and realizing you had the wrong Topper... ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 1:07pm
That is sacrilege ------------- |
... how could you do that to such a fine craft ...?Posted By: blaze720
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 1:12pm
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As technology moves on the competitive all up weight seem to come down .... This is exactly the reason we developed the Halo proposition. As technology has got 'better' we decided to use the technology 'gain' to offer a larger rig rather than simply accept that it would lead towards 'lightness' increasingly becoming the dominant factor. If we don't react as a provider this over time would lose support from the 'larger gentlemen' ! It is increasingly happening in many traditionally 'heavies' classes and so it was no surprise when we were asked by some larger helms if we could do 'a Blaze rig for bigger helms'. They wanted 'round the cans' simplicity but to be able to plane upwind for much of the time and to more than keep up with the lightweights offwind. The production rig just about to be launched and the Halo rules reinforce the nature of this derivative class - simply that it pays to be heavier ! 'Lightweights' can join in but always face a minimum weight rule that means they may have to carry weights. However they get no leverage compensation and the rig size will to a real extent be self-policing. Halo is never likely to beat spinnaker equipped boats on windward/leeward but upwind, reaching around the cans and whenever it blows watch out - the helms will tend to be that bit bigger as well - and with a smile to match. Blatent plug over .... Mike L. |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 2:07pm
Er craft(s) we 'done' loads..  ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 2:11pm
That's vandilism Grumpfs ... were they really beyond use? ------------- |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 2:17pm
FFS Lightweights can join in? Dwarfs? And I once got banned for calling someone/thing Gay? I'm precisely having this very debate with those t**sers on the windsurf forum where the Gay police like here seem to hold sway, yet ignore isms that are not personal choice. Folk are born light. They are born Short. Nothing they can do about it except defend themselves with humour and skillsets if they're lucky enough to be gifted with them. They are also customers or potential customers you industry fools who have no real conception of the modern market place which is why your stupid market is drying up with the exception of one supplier. And that quote? The sort of patronisation that equals the sales skill involved in leaving a customer with an open chequebook to answer a mobile phone, an incident that would have cost any of my team their job. Rant over. ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 2:19pm
No and they are/were a silly childs toy. Whoever bought them should have been made to sail one - forever. ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 2:24pm
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There are people who have learned in Toppers who have gone on to be National or world champions in many different classes. Maybe learning in something which isn't beyond the skills of a beginner is a good idea? Perhaps you should have spent a season in one rather than trying to learn on an MPS? ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 2:58pm
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Well hindsight is 20/20.
But I did learn in an MPS and the only reason I haven't still got it was because it wasn't mine in the first place and I gave it back before I broke it which I most certainly would have done eventually. Way better more experienced sailors than me break them on our beach. And since this is getting to be defend my personal honour day. I'm a half decent helm now, certainly at club level, the Alto and the Blaze have totally restored my self confidence (maybe it's showing too much) I'd heartily recommend both those boats to anyone, indeed I'm not actually looking forward to selling either of them nor having to endure the inevitable learning curve that will come with the RS100, it is certainly more difficult than the Blaze and that was in flat water what it would be like off Hythe in a blow, God only knows.. ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: Phil eltringham
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 3:13pm
Is it not better to introduce kids to sailing in toppers than never at all. That aside I genuinely hope the plastic was recycled and not just binned, bad enough throwing away boats without wasting resources in the process. ------------- FLAT IS FAST! Shifts Happen |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 3:20pm
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I've no idea what they did with it, probably in landfill by now, they certainly
didn't take kindly to my build a bigger bonfire suggestion.. Don't kids learn in Optimists. Brought my kid a Bic Open altogether a much more 'modern' approach, still stupidly too heavy for her to handle up and down the beach, so she doesn't. ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: blaze720
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 3:48pm
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GRF We are not into 'sizeism' in any way - I'd like everyone to be a potential customer. The current limitation we work with is a hull one - it works fantastically well with a bigger rig but not so well with a much smaller one. Don't think we've not considered all the options and I do mean all ! You can't do everything really well with one base hull. But that can change .... However if 'light' you could still play with a wire and wings and maybe even a Halo rig I suppose - and that wild card has crossed our minds amongst the many as well. Generally though most classes currently seem to favour lightweights more than they do heavyweights overall and that trend is increasing. So we thought we'd work to our current strengths and for heavier guys develop a different sort of approach. A fit lightweight can literally 'sail above their weight' much of the time especialy with good technique and if they have a flexi carbon stick and well designed sail .... but a fit 'heavyweight' is still heavy ! So we have gone the way we have because 1) The hull works very well indeed with the enhanced rig 2) We were asked to do it by heavy guys that felt they were losing advantage in their current classes - mainly due to recent rig and material advances. 3) An alternative hull would be needed to do what we wanted with other rig configurations such as 'smaller' rig etc. Mike L. |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 3:59pm
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In another direction ...why are some classes listing in the RCR as International Xxxx. For example: We have : International 505 But also : 420 Laser, 420 & 470 are both of course international classes. is there any protocol here or is it just historical? I guess there is the international Moth & the British Moth ... but 505 relative to the 470? ------------- |
Posted By: Jamie600
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 4:45pm
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Just for the record I'm sure plenty of clubs or individuals would have taken them off your hands and given them a new lease of life, even if some repair work was necessary. Just put them on Ebay for 99p, buyer must collect. ------------- RS600 1001 |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 5:00pm
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Have you no idea of the theraputic effect a windsurfer gets by taking a chain
saw to a dinghy? They all queued up to have a go, I guess we should have charged.. Everytime I walk along the seafront at Whitstable see all those washerwomen boats lined up - I just go into fantasy at the thought of having that chain saw thrashing and bucking ripping into that glass.. ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: Mikey 14778
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 5:02pm
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Yeah, whatever your personal opinion of them, somebody would have wanted them. Chucking away usable stuff is just
stupid. ------------- http://www.fireballsailing.org.uk/register/boat_info.php?sail_no=14778 - Fireball 14778 - 'Cruel and Unusual' http://www.draycotewater.co.uk - Draycote Water, fantastic ! |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 5:19pm
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See that laser in the background... ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: Steve411
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 6:09pm
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.. and perhaps a Furball too for some proper therapy... old ones aren't competitive anyway! ------------- Steve B RS300 411 https://www.facebook.com/groups/55859303803" rel="nofollow - RS300 page |
Posted By: Mikey 14778
Date Posted: 13 Nov 09 at 7:33pm
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Most of the old Furballs have the decency to rot away by themselves and thus don't end up clogging up
landfill sites. See - they're good even when they're knackered  ------------- http://www.fireballsailing.org.uk/register/boat_info.php?sail_no=14778 - Fireball 14778 - 'Cruel and Unusual' http://www.draycotewater.co.uk - Draycote Water, fantastic ! |