Hello All,

Sorry to post another question about "what family boat" but some of the responses on previous discussions have been really good.

I need a boat that can be sailed by two male adults (combined weight about 25st) that know what they are doing but want to improve and get back into club racing. It needs to have an asymetric spinnaker and decent performance. However it also needs to be used for family days out with young kids so not too tippy.

It will be harbour sailing so depth and tide will be an issue and there will be some shingle beaching.

Friends have Laser 2000s and I would buy one but you can't fit an outboard and the gel coat doesn't seem to like shingle beaches.

I'm thinking about an RS Vision (its plastic and can take an outboard) but will this be too much of a compromise in the performance department?

Cheers...

Hi 

- how young are the children...  do you want to take them out of a ' tippy racing' boat, with water coming in over the stern (no transom) and washing around their feet ?

I recently bought a "Topper cruz classic (14foot)  it's got an assymetric, oars and outboard. Okay -there's no class racing but definitely a sensible family boat, I say it could be raced as well but it's going to be in 'handicap'. 

A little sportier is the Topper Sport 14/16...  possibly can  fit an outboard onto as well?   - laser/toppoer have more modern equivalents that are roto-molded (i.e. Vago etc).

The Cruz classic,  is fibreglass (and 10+years old) - but has an aluminium centre-plate - so is fine for shingle if sailing too close to the coast.  Lovely boat though - I'm very totally pleased with mine.

I'd have thought the Laser2000 would be too small for your requirements, you'll not (I'd have thought) race a laser2000 competitively with 25stone in the bilges - you'll need something bigger.

Alternatively  - wayfarer /wanderer / bosun .... 

Cheers

  fin

PS - with 25stone  - you should be thinking about a laser5000 once you feeling a little more adventurous! 

After-thought:

For performance - think RS400. 

... You need a racing boat really for performance, but an-out-and-out racer won't be suitable for 'younger children'.

With regards to club-racing performance....  if you're only club racing  then I say you should be fine wiith the Vision (or equiv)....   it is marketed as a family-racer

Hi

For racing with 25st, how about an Albacore? No Assymetric but with adjustable mast and shrouds together with self launching jibstick still plenty of offwind performance. Faster round the cans than the 2000 if you go by PY and also an ideal family cruising boat. GRP ones available from £500 - to £5,000 depending on age, condition and spec. Faster than Wayfarer, Wanderer and Bosun and not so heavy to pull up the slip either! Try one and see... 

RE:>> There's never likely to be Open meeting racing/coaching/tuning information, all the rest of it round the Vision (or even the Laser 2000).

The Laser 2000 had over 80 boats at the Nationals. There is a very competitive and well atrtended Open Meeting circuit (25 to 40 each meeting), active discussions on the class forum and a well run (by sailors, not manufacturers) class association.

The Visions are a younger class, and are just starting to put Open Meetings into the calendar.

25stone in the Laser 25 is an ideal weight. People race them weighing anything from 19 to 32 stone (there are advantages to sailing a slightly heavier boat!). To get into the top 6 at the Nats you might aim for 21-22 stone, but 7th was around 26 stone...

If you are not too fussed about the spinnaker options then older designs are worth a look at. Like GP14 and Enterprise. Both will do what you are asking.

What do you mean by "decent performance". My 35 year old GP14 that cost £300 with the original sails and wooden batterns does not performance quite as well as a new GP14 on the race track! However it performs the role of a family cruiser as well as anything else. In fact better than a new GP14 becuase I am not too worried it it gets knock around on the beach, if the jib is furled or the sails flog.

We have two Visions as club boats, and they rate as one of the worst boats i've sailed. Heavy helm and heavy mainsheet loads. Just not pleasurable sailing. Seem to go OK though on PY.

The Laser 2000 is a nicer boat to sail, and would certainly be my choice over a Vision, but if sailing one with kids I'd swallow my pride and fit a mast float - it's one of the worst-performing boats in a capsize that i know (floats high, inverts; I've not capsized a Vision which looks as if it might be similar), and has given several of our members a fright when righting it wasn't as straightforward as they thought. Sometimes it comes up straight away, no problem, others it's a pig. With two blokes and 25 stone you would be fine, but I'd fit righting lines for other occasions.

In my view the Wayfarer is a much nicer boat than either, and whatever the PY says, not slower in my experience (so much depends on the boat and sailor). OK, most aren't asymmetric but examples do exist, though I think they're the worst version of the Wayfarer ever developed and also have righting issues owing to an excessively buoyant double floor. Is the asymmetric really so important? With the boats we're discussing, you're not getting any apparent-wind saiing buzz anyway, and with a regular crew a symmetric kite is easily sorted and more rewarding for the crew (my old Fireball crew was complaining that there wasn't enough for him to do in a 3000 in a F.4-5 around the Isle of Sheppey!).

The RS 400 is not a boat I'd envisage taking kids out in very much, but would be bang on the money for 25 stone racing men.

I don't think you'll find a boat that does everthing you want well, Dennis. You might need to decide which aspect is most important. Can you get your hands on a selection to try? Most owners are keen to recruit to their class.

Great responses - thanks everyone.

I went to the boat show and guess what they all told me - "no one boat does everything". I should have known really.

Looking at the options there I thought the RS Vision was a good compromise. Nice clear, uncluttered layout simple reefing, simple spinnaker set up, takes an outboard and the gnav system leaves really good space under the boom.

I'll try to sail the shortlist over the winter.

The other alternative is to leave the kids in Oppies for a few years and get a sporty single hander...

Cheers.

one which has not been mentioned yet but would seem to tick all the boxes is the comet trio.

Big boat so will carry 25 stone when racing, has an asymetric, the one that races at our club performs well on handicap... also a proper boat so ideal for loading all the family in and going for a pleasure sail.  Will easily fit 3/4 adults in it.

and you can fit an outboard too