Boats for general Sailability use
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Choosing a boat
Forum Discription: Ask any questions about the sport!
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5894
Printed Date: 09 Aug 25 at 9:29pm
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Topic: Boats for general Sailability use
Posted By: frensham
Subject: Boats for general Sailability use
Date Posted: 01 Sep 09 at 7:57pm
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Frensham Pond SC, the current RYA Sailing Club of the Year, are seeking to change their elderly Wayfarers for something more suitable for general Sailability sailing. Nothing wrong with the Wayfarers, they are great load carriers, and can be adapted well to carriage of severely disabled people. But they are capsizeable, and in these litigious times we need to be careful. What would readers recommend as a suitable alternative ? The boat needs to be uncapsizeable, maximum 16 feet long (condition of our lease), able to carry six, able to be adapted to strap-in seats, easily handled by two people ashore, and easily reefed. The Laser Stratos Keel suggests itself, but there must be alternatives. All suggestions welcome.
Nick - RYA Principal |
Replies:
Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 01 Sep 09 at 8:02pm
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Those carbon artemis boats look pretty nice, but they are probably over budget! and perhaps over length! ------------- |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 01 Sep 09 at 9:14pm
| Uncapsizeable is a big ask... I can't believe you'll get an uncapsizeable boat that will sail on Frensham... Self righting after capsize is about all you'd be able to say about a small keelboat. Anything is going to be capable of being knocked down horizontal if a big gust comes over the hill. |
Posted By: radixon
Date Posted: 01 Sep 09 at 9:31pm
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To carry six is going to equal a big boat, as for not been able to capsize, it will occur, even a yacht can capsize. Something bigger would be a cornish crabber, or drascombe lugger. They can be adapted I am sure, not cheap though. Edit - Drascombe lugger is ideal but it is 18ft, the Drascombe dabber is 16ft though. ------------- |
Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 02 Sep 09 at 2:56am
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a little crabber 17 would be ok if it was a foot shorter ------------- |
Posted By: A Seabadger
Date Posted: 02 Sep 09 at 7:38am
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Papercourt have a small Cornish Crabber for sailability. Why not contact them and ask. ------------- I don't suffer from insanity...I enjoy every moment of it. |
Posted By: Lukepiewalker
Date Posted: 02 Sep 09 at 8:38am
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Martin 16?
------------- Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard" Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch" Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air" Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile" |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 02 Sep 09 at 8:59am
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At Grafham sailability (where I am an SI) we use a Drascombe Longboat, which is ideal because it's stable, it can easily accommodate 8 sailors, we have a choice of sail combinations plus there is no boom to whack anybody about the head. Added to this we have a small outboard fitted so that we can motor back in an emergency or still take groups out if the weather is bad. I would think a smaller version of this would be perfect for you. If you want to see ours in action you'd be very welcome to come to Grafham and have a look and go for a cruise. We run on Monday mornings and Thursday afternoons. Nessa oh, and we are currently figuring out strap in seats but think they will be achieveable. ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: frensham
Date Posted: 04 Sep 09 at 1:28pm
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Thanks for your help, chaps. Jim, I think we can live with a knock-down, so long as there is almost immediate righting. The Drascombe range seems to get all your approval, and the Dabber, at 15'6" seeems to fit the bill. I did, though, hear an alarming story about swamping possibilities. The Martin 16 is, I think, only a two-person boat so not really suitable for 'trips round the bay'. Something similar to the the Cornish Crabber also seems a possible. Notice none of you commented on the Laser Stratos Keel, is there a reason against it - other than cost ? Now, if there was some way to fit a bulb keel to the Wayfarer's centreboard.............
Nick C |
Posted By: Captain Morgan
Date Posted: 04 Sep 09 at 3:10pm
I vaguely remember seeing somewhere (advertisement?) that there is an option of a ballasted centreboard for the Wayfarer, but it might have been the Wanderer. Can anyone else remember seeing this somewhere? It probably won't fit the bill, but it might be an option. |
Posted By: Andymac
Date Posted: 04 Sep 09 at 4:09pm
You may be mixing it up with a 'Wildfire'? similar size with ballasted keel also designed by Ian Proctor |
Posted By: radixon
Date Posted: 04 Sep 09 at 4:31pm
Nick You wanted a boat that would be able to carry 6 people. The Stratos also been GRP possibly wont be as easy to adapt to have strap in seats as say the Drascombe/Cornish range where you could replace a wooden seat with something. The stratos will take 4 adults, not sailed one with 6 myself. Here is an old picture of me sailing with 5 in the boat  We do at our club have the cruising boats, if you wanted any pictures of these I will try and get one next time one goes out. ------------- |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 04 Sep 09 at 5:18pm
I cannot imagine it would be difficult. I'd take the standard board out and make a custom keel rather than modify the board though. You've got some kind of hoist thing for the 2.4s haven't you? And "deep" water to your sailability jetty for the same reason IIRC? I think I'd have something that was inserted from underneath and had a flange on the bottom that made contact with the hull, then came up through the centreboard case and had a detachable flange that came through the top to lock it in place. You probably ought to get a Naval architect to do the engineering but with no salt water to worry about some sort of steel box with the lead bolted on and then a glass fairing round the blade for hydrodynamics ought to do the job. Shouldn't even cost mega money, and I'm quite sure it could be done to fit standard wayfarer so there would be no problem with purchase or resale. The fly in the ointment would be the EU classification, but the RYA could probably help. |
Posted By: radixon
Date Posted: 04 Sep 09 at 5:54pm
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The Stratos keel and the Access Dinghies have the keel bulb permentently. The issue I could see with the wayfarer is it will require strengthening around the centreboard case to take the extra weight, and some modification to lift the keel will have to be made. The trolley would also have to be redesigned. ------------- |
Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 04 Sep 09 at 5:57pm
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If you are coming to southampton boatshow then come and look at the crabber 17, even if it is slightly long it is still worth a look! ------------- |
Posted By: Captain Morgan
Date Posted: 07 Sep 09 at 1:47pm
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Re: the ballasted centreboard, Porters offered it as an extra: http://www.porters.org.uk/Prices/wayferer%2009-05.pdf - http://www.porters.org.uk/Prices/wayferer%2009-05.pdf I'm not sure if Hartley Laminates still provide it as an optional extra. |
Posted By: frensham
Date Posted: 08 Sep 09 at 11:44am
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Now that is helpful. Porter's still offer this as an extra, so we'll look into it,, The hull would need strengthening around the case area, but a ballasted board would add about 60lbs, and could be supplied, with strengthening as necessary, for about £500. Chearper than a Laser Keel !!
Thanks again,
Nick C |
Posted By: Lukepiewalker
Date Posted: 08 Sep 09 at 5:10pm
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Remember to include a tackle for the raising, and possibly something to hold it down too.
------------- Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard" Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch" Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air" Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile" |
Posted By: MerlinMags
Date Posted: 09 Sep 09 at 9:46am
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If you are looking at a self-righting boat mainly for legal protection, I wouldn't use a home-made keel bulb! Go with something officially tested etc by a big manufacturer.
How long is a Squib? http://www.newtosailing.com/classes/list.asp?type=disabled - http://www.newtosailing.com/classes/list.asp?type=disabled |
Posted By: radixon
Date Posted: 09 Sep 09 at 7:01pm
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http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/boats/dinghy/Squib/ - 5.7 mtr in length = 20 ft (or there abouts) ------------- |