You can’t be serious
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Banter
Forum Discription: For all those non-sailing related discussions
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5533
Printed Date: 04 Aug 25 at 6:25pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: You can’t be serious
Posted By: Ross
Subject: You can’t be serious
Date Posted: 20 May 09 at 9:15pm
http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/?article=146578 - http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/?article=146578  "Unlike other sealants, HySpeedKote™ is a hydrophilic coating: This means it attracts water. It allows your boat to move through the water with less effort, regardless of composition, configuration, or size." ------------- Ross If you can't carry it, don't sail it! |
Replies:
Posted By: s.a.l.t.y
Date Posted: 20 May 09 at 9:20pm
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if the water sticks to your boat wont that cause a hell
of a lot more drag? so in effect its trying to stick the whole river/lake/pond to the hull  ------------- |
Posted By: radixon
Date Posted: 20 May 09 at 9:21pm
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Bit like the Apprentice, market it well and sell it at a profit, you got nothing to loose then!
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Posted By: zailor
Date Posted: 20 May 09 at 9:27pm
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Well so long as you dont have a hole in the boat you should be fine
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Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 20 May 09 at 9:30pm
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Water moves quite easily against itself.
Some argue that a slighly rough (say 1200grit wet and dry) is faster than polished as a layer of water sticks to the boat and then you have the firction of water against water instead of water vs hull...... ------------- Wanna learn to Ski - PM me.. |
Posted By: Mark Jardine
Date Posted: 20 May 09 at 10:15pm
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I think you should take a look into the theory behind this before dismissing it! |
Posted By: ellistine
Date Posted: 20 May 09 at 10:37pm
Ski surfaces are 'roughened' or given structure in warmer snow when the conditions are generally wetter. Stops the suction effect. Not sure if this is the same. ------------- |
Posted By: NeilP
Date Posted: 20 May 09 at 10:41pm
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I'd strongly suggest you read FB's conclusions about what surface finish is faster, which are conclusions drawn after a lot of experimentation. Then ask yourself why a hydrophilic coating would make a boat faster. Theory is all very well, but where is the experimental - or even empirical - evidence? i think it's probably snake-oil, myself, like the "magnetic" fuel conditioners the motor trade was inundated with a while back. ------------- No FD? No Comment! |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 20 May 09 at 10:58pm
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Don't diss it, the stuff works, I used to use some of the early generation
stuff years ago on my then power boat and racing water ski to reduce friction. It eventually got banned. I researched the newer stuff and was going to apply it to the base of my speed board project last summer, not the spray, believe it or not it can be extruded and it has the same effect as the slimey feel you get from fish scales. Research regelation (the bit that makes ice slippy, and that's the theory. But I must admit I thought it was a competitive no no in the sailing world (especially in a One Design boat). ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 21 May 09 at 7:04am
Doesn't this stuff fall foul of Rule 53?
That is, if it actually works. Whilst they've published (on thier site) some trial data that looks good, what would be better would be some lab trials to show the actual effects described. I'm sure I could design an experiment using a rheometer and possibly some surface energy analysis. One thing though- wouldn't so rightly binding a layer of water to the hull increase the mass of the boat? It doesn't matter that the mass is in the form of something with the same density as the water as far as the mass you've got to move (acceleration) is concerened? How thick a trapped layer are we talking? I'm not saying it won't work outright- after all, look at the fuss the "sharkskin" suits caused in swimming. ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: JohnW
Date Posted: 21 May 09 at 10:10am
So Mark - why was this article listed under "Dinghy News"? Dinghy news is generally for racing reports, this stuff is clearly not legal for racing dinghies and I would think not of too much interest to dinghy cruisers. The article suggests that it can reduce fuel consumption which is not a bad thing for power boats, but its placement in Dinghy News is perhaps inappropriate. It could tempt the unscrupulous to buy and apply it - as the chances of being found out are minimal except perhaps at the very top level regattas. |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 21 May 09 at 10:22am
Is it? I can't be bothered to read the press releases, but my understanding is that surface treatments are OK provided that they don't release anything into the water. |
Posted By: Mark Jardine
Date Posted: 21 May 09 at 10:26am
I put it under Dinghy News as, if this works, then it would help for dinghies. As for Rule 53: A boat shall not eject or release a substance, such as a polymer, or have specially textured surfaces that could improve the character of the flow of water inside the boundary layer. So I look on the FAQs on the HySpeedKote website at http://www.hyspeedkote.com/FAQ222.htm - http://www.hyspeedkote.com/FAQ222.htm I saw the point: HSK dries to a hard finish and is water insoluble. Therefore they say it doesn't eject or release a substance, but is it a specially textured surface that could improve the character of the flow of water inside the boundary layer? I guess that's a question for ISAF. The closest I could find for this was this document on the ISAF website: http://www.sailing.org/26708.php - http://www.sailing.org/26708.php Anyway, that was my thinking as to why it should be in dinghy news! |
Posted By: Villan
Date Posted: 21 May 09 at 10:51am
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Can't you just tell them to do what other people have to do - "Buy an advert"? Same for Rooster - very thinly veiled adverts ... ------------- Vareo - 149 "Secrets" http://www.TandyUKServers.co.uk" rel="nofollow - TandyUK Servers |
Posted By: Mark Jardine
Date Posted: 21 May 09 at 10:58am
| Erm, Mailspeed Marine are an advertiser with us and the article is marked as a Mailspeed Marine article pretty clearly! |
Posted By: JohnW
Date Posted: 21 May 09 at 11:11am
Ok fair point. Having read their website, and your ISAF link then, I suspect that it would only be illegal if it was considered to have a textured surface - I believe that rule is to stop the "shark skin" textures that some AC boats experimented with years ago. Are polymer "branches" a texture??? Their site certainly has some impressive testimonial claims on it - too impressive perhaps. One yacht sailor claimed his boat was 10% faster!! Thats would equate to about a 6 minute advantage in a 1 hour race. |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 21 May 09 at 11:16am
They're not thinly veiled at all. Anything that comes from an organisation that isn't a club or class is a paid for ad, as I understand it. Anything from any shop should be treated as so. It's what helps pay for this website to run, along with the banner and side bar adverts. It's always been this way. I don't find it that intrusive, either. ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: Mark Jardine
Date Posted: 21 May 09 at 11:20am
Spot on! |
Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 21 May 09 at 11:52am
Here here !! |
Posted By: Phil eltringham
Date Posted: 21 May 09 at 12:29pm
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This and everything that is not polished off completely (ie: anything other than say a polish(!)) is not allowed because it leaves a "specially textured surface", and I would argue that that is the spirit of the rule. If that is genuiely the last thing that could speed you up in your sailing then your surname is probably Elvstrøm. ------------- FLAT IS FAST! Shifts Happen |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 21 May 09 at 1:25pm
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Well the stuff I researched is almost certainly a texture, a texture which
changes after an hour or so submersion and will certainly improve the performance of the hull, that spray on stuff used to be good for 5% and we proved that over a measured mile back in 1975, but it needs constant re-application. It was however illegal in sail events, but don't think that didn't stop some antipodean application, it's invisible to the naked eye and only becomes viable after a period underwater so very difficult to detect. Another of the dirty tricks us Brits wouldn't consider. Like tuned battens in Olympic OD fleets. (USA) Carbon re-inforced supposed OD centreboards (NZ) Re-inforced Flushing strips (GRE).. ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: JohnW
Date Posted: 21 May 09 at 3:58pm
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Here is an interesting article on the subject http://magicmicro.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?438 - http://magicmicro.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php ?438 And who remembers the days when we used to cover the bottom of our boats in black "Graphspeed" or white (or was it light pink) "Go Fast Paint". |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 21 May 09 at 7:43pm
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On the subject of a slighty round surface. I had a Laser which was covered in brown scum when I bought it. I had you use an abrasive cleaner on it to get the thing clean. When done the surface was slightly matt. I did the ususal after cleaning care (used a polish to seal the hull). But I swear that was the fastest Laser I have owned (I am now on my 4th for my sins). The one I have now has been painted (by paint craft) and I would say it is only marginally slower. The brand new boat I had felt nice but I am convinced it was not as quick (especially on a reach) as the other 2. Just my 2p.... ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 21 May 09 at 10:15pm
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Smoothy white and Smoothy pink. Can't remember them helping my boatspeed... ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: MerlinMags
Date Posted: 22 May 09 at 10:01am
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Was it John Oakley who claimed that painting the hull with egg white (and allowing it to harden) made a super-fast finish, as it slowly dissolved during a race?
I understand the story was all a con anyway, as the boat in question would be washed off secretly after all the rivals had launched! Mind games... |