29er X
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=546
Printed Date: 13 Aug 25 at 4:24pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 29er X
Posted By: Jon Emmett
Subject: 29er X
Date Posted: 11 Mar 05 at 9:59am
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"We have been experimenting with the 29er by building a slightly bigger rig, thrown in a mast head assymetrical spinnaker and an extra trapeze for the skipper. The reason for developing the New 29erX is to create a managable stepping stone between the 29er and 49er, as well as hopefully creating a New girls double handed High Performance class. From a performance side of things the New 29erx has impressed everyone who has sailed on it." "Extract from www.bethwaite.com news section (Watch out for further news on www.bethwaite.com, www.29er.org and www.ovingtonboats.com )." . ------------- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Be-Your-Own-Tactics-Coach/dp/0470973218/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312565831&sr=8-1 - |
Replies:
Posted By: KnightMare
Date Posted: 11 Mar 05 at 10:00am
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Lol looks fun, how about the price? ------------- http://theramblingsofmyinnergeek.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: sailor.jon
Date Posted: 11 Mar 05 at 10:00am
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kool, how does the preformance differ from the 29er? ------------- Jon Vortex 1169 http://www.yorkshiredales.sc/ - Yorkshire Dales Sailing Club |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 11 Mar 05 at 10:11am
well obvously it will be faster but the rig might be more similar to a 49er  ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: Phil eltringham
Date Posted: 11 Mar 05 at 10:42am
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As far as I know the rig is about the same as that of the 59er ------------- FLAT IS FAST! Shifts Happen |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 11 Mar 05 at 10:44am
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ok that sounds cool it is about the same size as the 49er isnt it? ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: KnightMare
Date Posted: 11 Mar 05 at 10:45am
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had thought it was a bit smaller but i may have been wrong , normaly am. ------------- http://theramblingsofmyinnergeek.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: Phil eltringham
Date Posted: 11 Mar 05 at 10:49am
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its almost exactly halfway between the 29er and 49er, so should work pretty well ------------- FLAT IS FAST! Shifts Happen |
Posted By: KnightMare
Date Posted: 11 Mar 05 at 11:07am
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cool sounds about right. So its still called 29erX but has a larger rig. ------------- http://theramblingsofmyinnergeek.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 11 Mar 05 at 12:15pm
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sounds realy good are ovington advertising it or not? ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: sailorguy
Date Posted: 11 Mar 05 at 1:46pm
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whats the price like and will they be production? ------------- RS 500 (twin wire) Laser 157607 Laser 85446 Pico 2136 |
Posted By: KnightMare
Date Posted: 11 Mar 05 at 2:18pm
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Yeah when would this be brought out? ------------- http://theramblingsofmyinnergeek.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 11 Mar 05 at 3:12pm
| The Bethwaites try a lot of stuff we don't necesarily get to hear about. I wouldn't expect to see one in the shops next week. |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 11 Mar 05 at 3:17pm
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yer hopefully!!! ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: Phil eltringham
Date Posted: 11 Mar 05 at 3:19pm
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buy a 59er rig, tie some trapeezes onto the hounds and try it on a 29er of your own, could do worse. (will have to check shroud and jib foot lengths tho) ------------- FLAT IS FAST! Shifts Happen |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 11 Mar 05 at 3:35pm
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yer but didnt someone try putting trapezes on a 59er and they sayed that it worked really good! ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 11 Mar 05 at 4:13pm
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i found out that it will cost £2874 and that is just the 59er sails mast ect. ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: KnightMare
Date Posted: 11 Mar 05 at 5:16pm
ok so quite a bit .... ------------- http://theramblingsofmyinnergeek.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: pro wannabe
Date Posted: 12 Mar 05 at 8:57pm
is it actuall a design by a desighner or just a couple of mates experimenting? looks cool tho ------------- Your spinni aint as big as your mouth! |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 12 Mar 05 at 9:11pm
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probily people just experimenting but that is what everyone wants so maybe someone should put a design together that dont cost that much and fits into the excisting 29er hull ect. ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 12 Mar 05 at 10:07pm
Its a Bethwaite Design project - the material is from their website. FB dropped a strong hint that something in that sort of range was on their radar a couple of years ago at Sailboat so they've been thinking for a good while. Here's JB on how they set about things.
They seem to me to be far more methodical and do far more development than other SMOD manufacturers, which is probably why they haven't put any real turkeys into production. I suppose because they are an engineering led outfit they don't have the bean counters bossing them about with 5000 memos a month telling them to get product out whether its good or not... |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 12 Mar 05 at 10:12pm
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so the 29er x is going to hapen then? ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 13 Mar 05 at 12:22pm
Something will happen. Whether it will be in that exact shape and form is another matter entirely. Being the Bethwaites you can be pretty sure it will be properly worked out and not a 59er rig stuffed on a 29er hull. For a two string boat I think I'd be tempted to give some more freeboard and more roll stability than the 29er, but one must remember that freeboard, while highly desirable structurally and in sailing terms, comes awfully expensive in terms of the number of hulls you can fit in a standard shipping crate. Slightly longer for a little more weight carrying ability would be no bad thing - to a large extent the 29er looks like a 12-13ft boat with an extended bow, so scaling up a little would bring the boat a bit nearer the 470 mark for what has to be targeted as a 470 replacement for the ladies in the 5 ring circus. The other factor is that a litle more beef in the structure would be a good thing for a two string big rig boat, and the market for an adults boat would probably stand a price premium for more sophisticated layup than the 29ers slightly budget construction. |
Posted By: sailorguy
Date Posted: 13 Mar 05 at 1:45pm
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what about the weight range? ------------- RS 500 (twin wire) Laser 157607 Laser 85446 Pico 2136 |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 13 Mar 05 at 3:43pm
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well taking into account what jimC has just said like looks like about the same weght range of the cherub of something like that!! ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 13 Mar 05 at 8:30pm
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Not all Bethwaite boats are a hit - the 59er has totally failed in the market so he's not without his own mistakes ... ------------- |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 13 Mar 05 at 8:38pm
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yer but look at all the sucseful boats he has designed. ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: Wave Rider
Date Posted: 13 Mar 05 at 9:16pm
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Hmm i don't no about that..the 59er isnt failing exactly because it had a hell of a lot of interest around it at the dinghy show and it is a fairly new boat... ------------- -[Franko]- Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club RS600 933 |
Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 13 Mar 05 at 11:52pm
| A funny boat the 59er. I must confess to getting it wrong since looking at its small main and broad rear sections I thought it unlikely to perform well in the light stuff. I am wrong, they have a couple at Eastbourne SC and talking to those who compete against them they are fast in light to medium. |
Posted By: Lanson
Date Posted: 14 Mar 05 at 6:08am
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Firstly, I don't work for Bethwaite Design, though I am quite well
informed, what I say is what I think, email them www.bethwaite.com if
you're looking for their answer. I've done a bit of sailing on the boat and can probably help to answer some of your questions so feel free to ask any more that you have. The rig and sails that you see in that pic happen to be the original 29er rig (originally it was a twin wire boat) with a few tweaks eg. mast is stiffer and some other tweaking. The current rig height is surprisingly only a little bit longer than the 29er (I think around a foot). I think they're aiming for the crew weight to be about the size of 2 good looking girls? I'd doubt very much whether they have a final price for the new components, though if you want to take a guess, the rig fits cleanly onto a standard 29er hull with the same foils pole etc. The parts which are different are: mast (and rigging), main, jib, kite and tiller extensions, all sheets and blocks are the same. The rig is still very much in prototype stage though I'd expect that once Julian gets the ratio's to a point he's happy with it could be produced very quickly. Since it's just rig and sails there aren't any moulds to build. |
Posted By: Yann
Date Posted: 15 Mar 05 at 2:51pm
| the original 29er got pretty twitchywhen twin wiring in a breeze, admittedly i only ever did it by me helming standing up and hanging onto the crews handle and pretty much sitting on his back knee but mates of mine rigged up a second wire. These things often ended in tears but thats probably just lack of practice. Tho i think i agree with JimC and would want a bit more stability, take the 49er for example, its very stable, the problem with keeping it upright comes from all that power. |
Posted By: Blobby
Date Posted: 16 Mar 05 at 12:19am
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UK is a biased market - the 59er is going absolutely head to head with the RS400 where you have an established fleets and a good circuit. Its not surprising really that it hasn't taken off. That doesn't mean it is a bad boat or that they aren't selling elsewere though... |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 16 Mar 05 at 4:40pm
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I'm not saying the 59er is a bad boat - in fact it's quite a plesant boat to sail if you want to sit out - however, the market is the final judge and I believe the sales have been not a patch on the 29er/49er. 5 entries in last years nationals after being in the market for 4 years?? ------------- |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 16 Mar 05 at 5:22pm
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yer but ovington have put a boat on the market that is very similar to a b14 so i am not suprised that it hasnt done well!! ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: 5420
Date Posted: 16 Mar 05 at 8:40pm
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Dave hall said at the dinghy show that it was not going to be put up for sale and it was somthing they where just working on but I wish that they would bring it out it looks great fun
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