view on topaz?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=501
Printed Date: 14 Aug 25 at 1:22am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: view on topaz?
Posted By: pro wannabe
Subject: view on topaz?
Date Posted: 27 Feb 05 at 7:38pm
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My mate has just bought a topaz tres (he wanted the trapeze and spinni for someone his size) and asked me to take him for a spin! i HATE it! thers not nearly enough space! its way too narrow! the spinni is unbelievable, its so small, so hard to get up! (thats if it doesent get caught in one of the hundred stupidly little blocks) and the entire system is stuffed into a tiny space! sure the rounded hull makes easy for writing, but contributes to the capsizeing! its nothing against the 29er! ------------- Your spinni aint as big as your mouth! |
Replies:
Posted By: Wave Rider
Date Posted: 27 Feb 05 at 7:43pm
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No it is a complete flop but i don't think you will get many reply's because in lots of threads we have already expressed our hate for he Topaz Tres ! ------------- -[Franko]- Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club RS600 933 |
Posted By: sailor.jon
Date Posted: 27 Feb 05 at 7:48pm
Topaz trez its alright peeps saying how much they hate um, i have to teach in them ------------- Jon Vortex 1169 http://www.yorkshiredales.sc/ - Yorkshire Dales Sailing Club |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 27 Feb 05 at 8:01pm
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get your mate to sell it before he loses to much money on it!!! topaz trez = dog poo ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: Phil eltringham
Date Posted: 27 Feb 05 at 8:52pm
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the only decent topaz rig is the uno main with the kite, the system is a lot better (less blocks and longer kite sock) and one up the power to weight ratio is reasonable enough to actually make the stupid thing move. ------------- FLAT IS FAST! Shifts Happen |
Posted By: Win or Swim
Date Posted: 27 Feb 05 at 9:22pm
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I have to teach in tres' too and its a right bloody nightmare! None of the systems work, spinnies get tangled and wont gybe, battens on mainsail wont 'pop' even with the hardest of rolls and all that adds up to lots of swimming. It eventually turns out to be one on one training with one student & one instructor in the boat just so they can sail without capsizing for 5 minutes. We paid a bomb for them, and only had them a couple of years, and now the loss we've made on them is a joke. People should learn there isn't an easy answer in life and that we should stick with the popular training classes (such as 29er) as they actually work! Topaz = |
Posted By: Phil eltringham
Date Posted: 27 Feb 05 at 9:26pm
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if the batterns aren't popping, either loosen them or use more kicker (even if you just pump it on to pop them and then ease it off after you are settled on the new tack. ------------- FLAT IS FAST! Shifts Happen |
Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 28 Feb 05 at 2:52pm
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the hulls flex too much, when the gust hits you can see the front of the boat start to twist off. They're a bit crap I think ------------- Needs to sail more... |
Posted By: stuarthop
Date Posted: 28 Feb 05 at 3:27pm
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They are Too pop the top batten pull pull the downhall on that will pop it then let it off again ------------- |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 28 Feb 05 at 4:22pm
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I dunno that I'd care to maintain 29ers as club boats unless there were paid staff. As a pedigree race boat they do require a bit more care and attention than a club boat tends to get. Tupperware is definitely the material of choice for the everyone jump in club boat.
The issue of course is that it needs just as much if not more r&d and attention to layout, interior design, fittings location etc as the pedigree boat. And when it comes to fittings etc they do suffer because they are so price sensitive. Wait for the expensive bolt on Tres race kit fittings some time soon [grin] |
Posted By: Win or Swim
Date Posted: 28 Feb 05 at 4:45pm
| That said though, the topaz tres' havent really stood up that well to use and need just as much maintance if not more than my 420 did. |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 28 Feb 05 at 5:21pm
Bet the hull gets hurt a lot less than a 29er's would if bounced on the cobbles on the edge of the reservoir, dropped off the launching trolley or T boned by one of the other training boats though:-) But I agree, ropes, fittings that sort of stuff is pretty much the same for everything, and a poor layout and cheap fittings will probably wear out stuff faster. |
Posted By: pro wannabe
Date Posted: 28 Feb 05 at 7:54pm
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a couple of you guys say you have to teach in them mu ex instructer is now teaching them and sails in his buzz! its similar to handel but if there are any problems he can get there first! oh yea wats the view on buzz? ------------- Your spinni aint as big as your mouth! |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 28 Feb 05 at 8:15pm
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the buzz is a good boat you can go single handed or dubble and it is cheep and the class assosiation looks to be quite well run. so a thumbs up for the buzz ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: Wave Rider
Date Posted: 28 Feb 05 at 9:00pm
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I think the Buzz might be an up and coming class.............although the bloke who runs the shop where i get all my apsres and gear is head of class association so i might be a bit biast! anyone here shop at wet and windy? Garry do you as you live near to me? ------------- -[Franko]- Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club RS600 933 |
Posted By: old man steptoe
Date Posted: 28 Feb 05 at 9:28pm
yeah good one ------------- Laser 174115 Is Better Than You |
Posted By: stuarthop
Date Posted: 01 Mar 05 at 9:08am
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I think that thats true too if people stick to RYA training classes there are more people prepared to help them learn and progress ------------- |
Posted By: old man steptoe
Date Posted: 01 Mar 05 at 4:40pm
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i was kidding, i cant see anyone realistically learning how to 'assymetric' in a 29er. a tres is ideal for teaching in, or a 405 ------------- Laser 174115 Is Better Than You |
Posted By: Phil eltringham
Date Posted: 01 Mar 05 at 4:57pm
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I taught myself how to use an assymetric on a 29er, learnt to trapeeze on one as well. It is not that unstable, you just need to be awake feel what the boat is doing. ------------- FLAT IS FAST! Shifts Happen |
Posted By: Wave Rider
Date Posted: 01 Mar 05 at 7:10pm
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Does it need to be Very windy to get tres's to plane? ------------- -[Franko]- Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club RS600 933 |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 01 Mar 05 at 7:52pm
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a tres is one of the most boats ever made. put it this way i count my lucky stars that i dont have to teach people how to sail them. everything that can go wrong when designing a boat, has gone wrong with the tres!!!!!!! ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: pro wannabe
Date Posted: 01 Mar 05 at 8:12pm
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wave rider: "Does it need to be Very windy to get tres's to plane?" me: "YES" last time i got one on a plane it was a 6! ------------- Your spinni aint as big as your mouth! |
Posted By: pro wannabe
Date Posted: 01 Mar 05 at 8:14pm
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and wave rider i get all my kit from a guy from w+w online! ------------- Your spinni aint as big as your mouth! |
Posted By: Wave Rider
Date Posted: 01 Mar 05 at 8:39pm
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Oh right probably Andy Holmes
Yeah gd shop isnt it ! i get ALL my stuff and spares from there (the sop not the online version) and they are very helpful and knowledgeable staff ! ------------- -[Franko]- Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club RS600 933 |
Posted By: old man steptoe
Date Posted: 02 Mar 05 at 4:06pm
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yeah, good one eltringham ------------- Laser 174115 Is Better Than You |
Posted By: Phil eltringham
Date Posted: 02 Mar 05 at 7:00pm
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All I had sailed before the 29er was toppers, and a bit in radials. It did take me a year to get the hang of it all, a lot of patience, capsises and missed days sailing because of too much wind. Even to this day I would not rate myself too highly in terms of sailing skill. It is just a matter of sticking with it, however you are right there are far easier boats to learn everything on, my point was simply that you can learn in the boat, (it just takes a little longer). I guess I should have explained myself to start with, sorry. ------------- FLAT IS FAST! Shifts Happen |
Posted By: Wave Rider
Date Posted: 02 Mar 05 at 7:39pm
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Once you get a 29er gonig i bet its worth it tho ! ------------- -[Franko]- Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club RS600 933 |
Posted By: Phil eltringham
Date Posted: 02 Mar 05 at 8:54pm
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yeah, its a brilliant little boat, definately worth the extra effort! ------------- FLAT IS FAST! Shifts Happen |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 02 Mar 05 at 9:00pm
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yer pro wannabe tell your mate to get a 29er. ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: Wave Rider
Date Posted: 02 Mar 05 at 9:04pm
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Wow a job in wet-windy has come up for a keen dinghy sailor !
Shame im not 16 ! ------------- -[Franko]- Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club RS600 933 |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 02 Mar 05 at 9:06pm
wave rider what has that got to do with an topaz tres??? ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: Wave Rider
Date Posted: 02 Mar 05 at 9:08pm
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Oh yeah gd point........sorry everyone ! ------------- -[Franko]- Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club RS600 933 |
Posted By: sailorguy
Date Posted: 04 Mar 05 at 8:35am
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the topaz is a bad compromise between a laser pico, which is bad in itself, and the new laser vago. it's spinni is too small and gets stuck in the chute, the whole boat is underpowered so need a good f5 to get it going two up. ------------- RS 500 (twin wire) Laser 157607 Laser 85446 Pico 2136 |
Posted By: stuarthop
Date Posted: 04 Mar 05 at 8:40am
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it sucks big style! ------------- |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 04 Mar 05 at 4:10pm
i can see what topaz have tried doing tho. they have thryed to put a spini and a trapez on a small boat and have an up grade system were you can add a jib or the spini ect. but it didnt work. ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: pro wannabe
Date Posted: 05 Mar 05 at 7:22pm
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didnt work? thats an understatement! ------------- Your spinni aint as big as your mouth! |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 05 Mar 05 at 7:28pm
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yer i know. i reckon a monkey could have done better. ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 05 Mar 05 at 10:21pm
| What's this Topaz business. I'm confused, there's a Topaz Magno, Topaz Omega, Topaz Topaz, and a Topaz something else. But they are all Toppers, what's going on, and where do the Spice, ISO, Buz and Boss fit in? Is the Topper a Topper Topper or a Topaz Topper? It can't be good to confuse the customer before he even sees the boats. |
Posted By: Wave Rider
Date Posted: 06 Mar 05 at 10:26am
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Lol yeah good point..................i think next time i buy a boat i may get a spice or 29er bit confused which one to go for as the spice looks fun with the double trapeze but they 29er has a good fleet and also offers good performance ! ------------- -[Franko]- Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club RS600 933 |
Posted By: Contender443
Date Posted: 06 Mar 05 at 3:40pm
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Don't get a Spice nobody sails them. Where as the 29er has a good youth circuit and is much more established. ------------- Bonnie Lass Contender 1764 |
Posted By: hydrographer20
Date Posted: 06 Mar 05 at 4:22pm
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yeah a 29er is good and i have nmebver even heard of a spice is it any gd|? ------------- byte me!- GBR 814 |
Posted By: pro wannabe
Date Posted: 06 Mar 05 at 7:59pm
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spice are giant buzz! there good fun. ------------- Your spinni aint as big as your mouth! |
Posted By: Wave Rider
Date Posted: 06 Mar 05 at 8:03pm
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Yeah thats how i'd describe them ! But they have a fairly big kite, double trapeze and i think are quite a lot faster than a Buzz but they do look easy and fun to sail ! ------------- -[Franko]- Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club RS600 933 |
Posted By: pro wannabe
Date Posted: 06 Mar 05 at 8:08pm
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lots of different types of "topaz": topaz taz: hull: like a topaz but small, rig: optional oppi style or pico style very slow topaz sailing system:hull:original topaz rig:uon one pico like sail/uno plus that and a tiny jib, uno race one sail fully battened/race plus that with reasonabe jib/race x that (with or without the jib) with a spinni, duo stayed mast main and jib trap, trez: duo with spinni magno: Hull: magno rig: club or sport: two or three sails omega: magno but biggar! ------------- Your spinni aint as big as your mouth! |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 06 Mar 05 at 9:46pm
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they are the only range of boats to all be plastic!! they are all rubish!!1 ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 07 Mar 05 at 10:38am
Vaguely a Buzz with an ISO rig and an extra string! Not a major financial success for Topper. They do seem to be still marketing them, but then Topper are still listing the Boss on their website. It would be hard to regard the boat as being design wise the equal of a 29er. Like all the early Topper boats it suffers from being based on pre Amalgamation I14 design a a time when the I14 was a little less than state of the art in world wide terms. |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 07 Mar 05 at 11:30am
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i think topper have good boats but they just dont have that magic spark that things like the rs rande do. ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: Andy949
Date Posted: 07 Mar 05 at 11:50am
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Yea i think so too I ve got an ISO and its great fun dont get me wrong, but ive aslo sailed 29ers and they are certainly more skiffy!! ------------- A.Skinner |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 07 Mar 05 at 11:54am
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the toppers range at the minute is rubish! they should try and turn that around and make a cool boat or something. ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: Phil eltringham
Date Posted: 07 Mar 05 at 3:06pm
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No they should not!! If topper start making 'cool' boats there will be even more new classes to sperad a not particularly huge sailing community between. You are better off picking a better boat from someone else, that way there will be more poeple for you and everyone else to sail against. Enough with the new boats, lets just fix the mistakes with the ones we have and start enjoying them! ------------- FLAT IS FAST! Shifts Happen |
Posted By: C. Petrie
Date Posted: 07 Mar 05 at 3:29pm
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Well the Buzz/Iso/Spice/Boss ranges of topper’s boats are all pretty old! I think they are well over 10 years old, so compared to today’s standards they may not be as good/fast/exciting but then again, dinghy development has came along way the past decade! Besides they pose a good cheap (sub £2k) entry for people into "modern" asymmetric dinghies... Sorry rant over! - Its just the Monday blues!
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 07 Mar 05 at 5:13pm
Ah well, there we go with the downside of the Single Manufacturer one design bit. Everything ios a compromise, there's a downside to everything, right? In the case of SMODs, unlike a 505s Enterprises, Scorpions, Cherubs or whatever, if a new bulder wants to get into building a SMOD class they have to found a new one. They can't get into building an existing SMOD because a) the current builder owns all the design and copyrights etc and b) having two builders would mean that people would assume one builders bat was faster then the other builders, and they'd lose the any boat is good enough thing. And then its a considerable challenge to fix mistakes (especially what looks like a mistake now but wasn't when it was designed) with SMOds, because as soon as you fix something again you've lost the one design bit. Bethwaite's managed to do it with the 49er masts, but it can cause considerable organisational/political problems for other classes... Don't, for instance, go to a Tasar Championship and say what a good idea it would be to have a Tasar mk 2!! This isn't to knock the SMOD thing, which has its place just as much as the Development Class or the multi supplier One Design concepts do, just to note what one of the downsides is. If you think about it, its just like the car industry, every major manufacturer makes their small hatch backs, their family saloons etc etc, and every few years its replaced by a new model... You can't imagine Fiat not bringing out a new hatchback if Ford has grabbed the market with a smart new model. |