Are you talking fleet racing?

If so, 1st boat just tacks when the 2nd boat tacks. There is no reason for the 2nd boat to go beyond the layline. Yes the 1st boat will be behind as a result. Presumably they got into this situation by tacking into the safe leeward position under 2nd boat and that was a mistake. They should have ducked then tacked on the starboard-tack layline to windward of 2nd boat.

After the finish, 1st boat explains to the race officer why starboard-hand windward marks are best saved for team racing:)

Thanks for that.  Yes I was talking fleet racing.  Its as I suspected - the leading boat cannot tack until the overlaped boat does, but he can luff head-to-wind. 

At our club we do try and go for port rounding - its safer, but starboard rounding does make for some interesting situations.

Since you seem incredibly clued up on this rounding the mark malarky, could u help on a slight problem??!! I would like to know, a) how you know which one is windward, and which one isn't, sorry that's such a simple question but im ill at the mo, and can't get my head round it and b) what racing rule 18 is - it should be something to do with rounding a mark....

oh well, it'd be great if you could help, ta!!

Isnt a windward mark one that you have to sail close hauled to (dont quote me im just going by logic,) I searched the definitions in the rule book and it doesnt have it.

18 Rounding And Passing Marks and Obstructions

in short if the boats are overlapped, then the outside boat shall give the inside boat room to round the mark, and if the inside boat has right of way the ouside boat shall also keep clear.

It doesnt apply at start marks (if surrounded by navigable water) and if the boats are on oposite tacks, and the proper cours for one or both boats to get round the mark is to tack.

I hope this helps and doesnt confuse you further. If you want the rule in full give me a post (but I only have the 2001-2004 rules at the moment)

Like Knightmare I couldn't find a definition of a windward mark but I think his logic is good.

And my understanding is that the inside boat does have right of way in these circumstances and so the outside boat will have to wait for the inside boat to tack.  Even if the inside boat is behind - although he must be overlapped.

I think i love u knightmare....joke!!! But really, ta thanks sooooooooo much!!! Ta to redback too, u seem full of all sorts of vital info!!!!!

Thnx!

i had a situation at my club this weekend where by we were approcing the windward mark on starboard and my dad sailing the same type of boat behind me did not have an overlap but he said i tacked in his water who was in the right??

Not always true I think; Outside can be on dodgy ground even if Inside is not overlapping. The situation we are talking about is two boats close-hauled on starboard approaching a mark to be taken to starboard. Then rule 18 applies if they are both on starboard at the two-boatlength circle and Inside, if overlapping, has rights.

However if they are not bang on the layline and Outside tacks onto port outside the 2BL circle, rule 18 does not apply (18.1b). Therefore whether overlapped or not, Inside has right under rule 10 (port/starboard) and also possibly under rule 13 (keeping clear while tacking).  

Not sure I understand. Was he already on starboard on the layline and you tacked in front of him? If so, there are limits on how close you can tack, but you can - in theory - get pretty close. Basically you need to be back on a close-hauled course before he needs to start avoiding action. However if it came to a protest, you'd probably find the committee would expect you to prove you left enough room, which can be hard to do.

I did some expensive damage to a keelboat once in this kind of situation. While I am sure I did not tack too close, the other guy just took no avoiding action at all and ploughed into my windward quarter, producing nasty graunching sounds and cracks in the hull. I didn't see how I could prove I was in the right in a protest so I did turns, then made an insurance claim. It all got a bit unpleasant. Best avoided, I'd say.

After a boat passes head to wind, she shall keep clear of other boats until she is on a close-hauled course.

I guess an on-board GPS would help to identify when you had got back on close hauled ?

Now here is an interesting argument against all the classes that ban electrics in racing.....

Not really. I've used GPS a lot in keelboats and racing yachts and none of them have recorded a detailed history of where you have been. It's not what they are for. Nor are they that accurate in practice regarding instantaneous speed and direction (as opposed to position, which is usually accurate to a few 10s of metres and sometimes better ).

I still don't follow you - round it on starboard or to starboard? If on starboard, why did you need to tack?

From what I understand  ..... the leading boat is required to keep clear of the 2nd boat whilst tacking, therefore the solution would be to sail up to head-to-wind (do not allow the sails to tack) and hope that
1. the 2nd boat can't sail between you and the mark
2. the 2nd boat would be forced to sail to leeward of the you - enabling you to tack
If neither of those work, then you may have to wait until the 2nd boat tacks around the mark, then follow (worst case scenario)

What are you using.  Mar Garmin V has a 1 second sample rate and provides excellent plots of what I've been doing.