1. I don't have enough money for a Phantom
2. I've only ever briefly sailed a Laser whilst on holiday in Greece some years ago
3. There's no decent Laser fleet at my club
4. There's several Vareos but they don't come out to play

or perhaps a SoSlow?

NOT a laser, the only thing they are good for is decent club racing and arseing around on a reach in WAVES in F5+

The 8.1 is very top heavy, just think what that will do to your back and knees.

I know of one and the guy has problems launching it and keeping it upright just on the pontoon.

Dont bother with the Laser 8.1, I'd find another handicap boat to have fun with (contender??)

Originally posted by Villan Or £2500 for a wooden http://www.phantomclass.org.uk/main/index.php?option=com_marketplace&page=show_ad&catid=1&adid=85&Itemid=27 - Phantom sounds like a good deal to me! (Should get some admiring glances in the boat park as well )

I think that may of just been bought in the last few weeks by another chap at Alton.

A 8.1 may be very top heavy but there is always plenty of people around the pond to help you out

Edit - Here you go Nigel, i've found a laser for you... probably a bit more than what you want to spend at £16,000 tho... http://sailingdinghies.apolloduck.co.uk/display.phtml?aid=87463 - http://sailingdinghies.apolloduck.co.uk/display.phtml?aid=87 463

Wooden Phantoms can look great,  but as someone who's spent way too much time sanding down/painting/varnishing and fixing the various assorted breakages on the two wooden Phantoms I've owned this isn't a route I'd recommend. Phantoms are rarely anywhere near minimum weight either when built in wood, so I don't see why anyone would pay anything more than a k or so for a boat thats likely to be a), Uncompetitive against modern spec Phantoms, b) Fragile, and c) Maintenance intensive. You'd be better of spending £2.5k on something thats likely to be at least competitive in its class, like a Laser, 8.1, Supernova etc.

This is kind of fun.  There have been similar discussions going on in a number of threads now.  Having considered it at length over a nice cold beer (not this morning), I have come up with the following solution:

• Take all the current singlehanded classes and separate them into two categories and two subcategories: OD and development, normal and people who like pie
• Take them all down to WPNSA (or somewhere in the North if you prefer) and get a load of people to test sail each one, ranking them as they go in an Olympic-trials-esque fashion
• Write the names of all the boats down on bits of paper and put them in four buckets - again OD and development, normal and pie
• Pick one class from each bucket, ignoring the results of the trials (this should satisfy the ISAF that the selection has been done in an open fashion)
• Try and persuade everyone to sail one of the four classes, so that we've got really quality class racing across the country.  Equally, convince those people who don't like losing and would rather try and produce a better boat to win on handicap than get better... not to (you all know who you are - we've got one at our club!)
• For the OD boats, get all the manufacturers producing different singlehanders currently to make the selected classes so that there's a degree of competitive pressure on quality and cost

Ta da!  Problem solved!  Big brother, anyone say?  Controversial?  Possibly.

OK, so thinking about this more there's an issue for the people who already own now out-of-class boats and can't afford to go in class.  I'll leave that to someone else to sort out!  Where can we get a subsidy from...?

What's more recyclable?  The fibreglass and cheese that they use to make Lasers or the Topper-melted-bucket approach?

Incidentally, I had a Topper when I was little and I thought it was the best thing ever.  I'd buy a Xenon.  Er, except that I haven't.

Ken,

You're a little on the light side for a Laser... but it's not a problem.  Get a Laser, buy a radial rig, race the Laser in club racing when you can handle it, race the radial when it's stronger: job's a good'un.

Radials now have larger fleets at a lot of the main events anyway.  Many people say they're a better boat due to the balance and the cut of the sail (although some don't).  Guys in full rigs will REALLY struggle to get close to you on handicap.

The above is of course assuming you're looking for a Laser.  If you're interested in other threads there's plenty to review re: other boats.

Incidentally, if you're unsure about the full rig / radial thing, that's what Steve Cockerill does (when not racing everything else under the sun - although he's a little heavier than you).

Will I be bored in a Laser?

YES!

Don't do it, especially if there's no other Lasers to sail against, that's the only reason you would want to sail one!

I'm speaking from my own experience, I had a Laser, in fact I had several, and - Got Bored. And that was when I had other Lasers to sail against which tends to be the driving choice behind most people's decision to sail one.

I'm not suggesting a high performance boat, just that there are much nicer hiking singlehanders around than the Laser, that are no harder to sail so if you're not constrained by wanting to sail in a fleet, why not get something a little different?

I can understand that, Jamie600 but I think it's useful to differentiate from you getting bored and anyone getting bored with a Laser.

I have a Laser - and I love it.  I love it for the same reason that many of the other people who I race Lasers with love it.  And that's because I can jump in it and have good fun in a race with plenty of other people in the same situation.

If I've been away from sailing for a while, I can get back in it and still be reasonably competitive.  Sure, I won't be at the front of the fleet but neither will I be being lapped.

If I want to get to the front of the fleet I have to practice and train... I don't have to buy new bits (OK, with the obvious exception of a sail which turnturtle rightly says is like paper).  Tactics are at the forefront as well because there's relatively little difference in boatspeed, apart from the obvious downwind heroes at the front of the big flets.

You, on the other hand, obviously enjoy the Moth.  Who wouldn't - there are plenty of occasions when I think that I'd like to have an easily driven, fast boat.  But it has its drawbacks too.  If you want to get to the front of the fleet you have to buy a decent boat.  And practice like anything!  When you first turn up on the circuit,even if you're a reasonable sailor in other classes, the likelihood is you'll get lapped.  I remember when Ben Ainslie did the Moth nationals a few years ago (before foils came along) - there was a good picture of him sat on the hull of his upturned boat as everyone flew past him.

So although I actually understand where you're coming from, I don't think it's necessarily true to say that Lasers are boring.  I know that some people find them boring, but based on the numbers being sold and racing regularly I would say there are plenty more that don't.

Wish I had never sold mine............you can sail them in any conditions, there is an art to sailing them well (which you can constantly refine) and anyone who got bored in a Laser was'nt really trying...........go for it, get a reasonable one (and the 8.1 as an optional rig)............they are an easy target to dismiss by the ill informed......

The hull  has always been made by Ovingtons.

Hi Ken, how was the holiday? Are you racing tonight?

I dont think he has another boat yet!!

phil,

i have a vareo again now i tried other boats like lasers and  rs 300s all nice boats to sail but they do have one draw back when sailing down wind  at our club  (broadstairs) against the tide you cant beat the vareo with the kite.

as for pointing like nigel says they dont point that well but if you use a new sail they do point quite well and can be faster upwind than the laser but saying that i am over 14 stone and 6ft 3 the key to sailing one fast is to try and keep it flat.

i love mine and i wont got back to anything else i sail on saturday in 25 knots of breeze the kite legs were great hard going upwind but what boats are easy in those breeze

andy

hi phil,

well i think if you sail it slightly on top of you like to windward it does seem to help for pointing i think it is about the same as a laser.i was out pointing the 2000s yeaterday and go just a bit faster.i think its all about sitting in the right place and hicking hard to get them to go well.

i dont think that they are as bad as people make out.well i like it so thats all that matters to me and i would reckon mend them to anyone who asked.

if are intresed in one rs ldc racing sailboats are sorting out a test boat that people can try out so it might be worth giving them a call if you want a go.

Originally posted by kensail I know Nigel may sell his, he feels he would like to have a change, but there you go, Topaz, Topper, Vareo, never satisfied is he!! Ken.

• The Topaz was sold to buy the Vareo
• The Comet was sold to buy new shiny bits for the Vareo
• The Topper was won at the Dinghy show and is currently sailed by Mrs Webmuppet
• The Vareo might be sold to buy a Rooster 8.1 ?

Will you be doing the 8.1 Nationals at Weston in October?  Was a really good event last year and Steve is very good at handing out tips to everyone.

You definately wont get bored in your laser on Saterday ...

http://www.windguru.cz/int/index.php?sc=98382 - http://www.windguru.cz/int/index.php?sc=98382

http://g.imageshack.us/img123/windoz8.jpg/1/ - http://imageshack.us - http://imageshack.us -

Looks like perfect first time Laser sailing day to me  

I think i'll have a stab at my GCSE Windsurfing and Sailing videos

That'll be the GCSE PE videos. How pants, the examiners don't even know what to look for, a blimin 10 yo can tack/gybe/capsize etc and pass that one!

Well theres only one quetion to ask now....

Did u get bored in the laser?