Single hander for a 13 /13.5 stone sailor
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Choosing a boat
Forum Discription: Ask any questions about the sport!
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4256
Printed Date: 06 Aug 25 at 5:39pm
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Topic: Single hander for a 13 /13.5 stone sailor
Posted By: SimpleSimon
Subject: Single hander for a 13 /13.5 stone sailor
Date Posted: 06 Jun 08 at 7:20am
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Hi I've been out of sailing for a number of years and am hopefully going to return to sailing. I am looking for a plastic, single hander. I will be sailing inland. My weight fluctuates between 13 - 13.5 stones. Would I be to heavy for a laser? Would I be to light for a phantom? What would you recommend (including alternatives)? Si |
Replies:
Posted By: Charlie
Date Posted: 06 Jun 08 at 8:04am
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Stock answer would be look at these possible boats: Finn Phantom Laser 8.1 Blaze RS300 But in all honesty rather than try and convince you to join a certain class you're better off going to the club you want to be sailing at and seeing what else is being sailed there. If you get a boat that already has a fleet then it will be far more enjoyable on the weekends (take it you'll just be club sailing to begin with, no nationals etc?) and there's a lot to be said for beating people on the water than through handicap. Plus if there are the same boats being sailed then you'll get up to speed a lot faster with the help of other sailors. (my 2 pennies worth, prob best taken with a pinch of salt.) ------------- Finn GBR 657 - Blown It Laser 164635 Planet Earth: 30% Land, 70% race course! |
Posted By: Chew my RS
Date Posted: 06 Jun 08 at 8:53am
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13-13.5 stone is absolutely fine for a laser. Okay 12-12.5 might be 'ideal', but the difference in speed will be so small it will be lost in all the other mistakes that you (and everyone who isn't Ben Ainslie) make e.g. bad start, fluffed tack, sail more than one year old, self bailer left open etc. The benefit of the Laser is that you can find one at any budget (£200-£4000), you'll always have someone to race against and you can sell it one, with no depreciation, really easily. There are better boats to sail, but they are generally more expensive (or worse condition for the money), offer less fleet racing, are harder to sell and often (but not always) more fiddly. As a first boat back, I would strongly recommend a Laser, and then when your fully back into the swing of things you can decide whether to stick or twist, with more idea about what you personally are looking for in a boat. Best of luck. ------------- http://www.sailns14.org - http://www.sailns14.org - The ultimate family raceboat now available in the UK |
Posted By: SimpleSimon
Date Posted: 06 Jun 08 at 9:10am
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Thanks for the replies. I think you've confirmed what I was thinking. I used to sail a laser (the first thing I bought when I left school and started work (31 years ago!) and they are simple no messing boats. Sailed at almost any club. I hadn't heard of the Rooster 8.1 rig, although I have seen Rooster mentioned in adverts. This sounds like it could be a good option. Is the Rooster 8.1 rig well recognised? What is the PY for that setup? Thanks again for your help. Simon |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 06 Jun 08 at 9:58am
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I'd stay with the Standard Laser rig unless you are: 1: super fit middle age guy. 2: want a 8.1 for light winds. 1 / 1.5 stone extra in a Standard Laser will just make up for old man knees. ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: SimpleSimon
Date Posted: 06 Jun 08 at 10:41am
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Ha, ha, how true! My plan - Buy a standard Laser and upgrade if necessary. From what I've seen on the Rooster web site the 8.1 rig looks good value, so I don't think I'd get to many complaints from 'er in dooors if I needed to! So now I just need a 'like new Laser' for bargain price!!! |
Posted By: chrisclark123
Date Posted: 06 Jun 08 at 10:43am
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I'd say that you are far too light to sail an 8.1 in anything apart from light airs, but if you buy a laser there is always that option. where as the other classes mentioned you are stuck with the sail plan. The rooster 8.1 is recognized and there are 300 odd rigs about already. The PY is 1051 i believe. http://www.rooster8point1.com/ - www.rooster8point1.com is the class website if you are interested. Chris |
Posted By: Chris Turner
Date Posted: 06 Jun 08 at 11:27am
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As of this week the Solution will now only be available from Ovington Boats, press release to follow. mailto:chris@ovingtonboats.co.uk - chris@ovingtonboats.co.uk |
Posted By: Matt Jackson
Date Posted: 06 Jun 08 at 1:32pm
You're too light for a Phantom and a Finn, unless you sail somewhere it's rarely windy. ------------- Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36 |
Posted By: Charlie
Date Posted: 06 Jun 08 at 2:01pm
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Woah, how heavy should you be to sail a Finn, i'm bout 13.5 stone and manage fine in up to force 6/7, they're a lot easier to de-power than lasers. And there's guys (and a girl) who are far lighter than me and been fine out in the rough stuff. ------------- Finn GBR 657 - Blown It Laser 164635 Planet Earth: 30% Land, 70% race course! |
Posted By: Hengest
Date Posted: 06 Jun 08 at 2:03pm
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned a Solo. 13ish stone is no problem for one of those as long as you have the correct rig. More comfortable than Laser. I think there's reasonable sized fleets dotted around the country so class sailing is an option Post something on their forum at http://www.solosailing.org.uk/ and I'm sure they'd tell you what the correct mast and sail would be. Also whether there's a club near you with a fleet. |
Posted By: Matt Jackson
Date Posted: 06 Jun 08 at 2:20pm
Sorry, I should have said 'too light to be competitive in...' and Simon didn't say he wanted to race. Yes, anyone can sail any boat if you don't intend racing... heck I've even sailed an Optimist (although I was a lightweight 14 stone then!). My comment is based on Ben Ainslie saying he had to put on a lot of weight to get from his ideal Laser weight
------------- Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36 |
Posted By: Charlie
Date Posted: 06 Jun 08 at 2:45pm
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Ok should have added that when i said lighter guys and girl who have gone out in the rougher stuff I was talking about racing from my club including opens ------------- Finn GBR 657 - Blown It Laser 164635 Planet Earth: 30% Land, 70% race course! |
Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 06 Jun 08 at 5:50pm
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If you want to sit out rather than trapeze then 13.5 stone is the perfect weight for an OK. Just need to find a club with a fleet to join. Bit more interesting than a Laser !
Solution is worthy of a punt if you have a bit more cash, or RS300. |
Posted By: timeintheboat
Date Posted: 06 Jun 08 at 7:04pm
+ supernova + solution + laser + solo - Finn - Phantom Depending on where you are going to sail, look at what others are sailing. That way if you ever do want to racing you are already set up. The good thing about the 8.1 is that you pick an old hull and stick a new rig on it for not much. For just cruising though the world is your lobster as there are plenty of two man boats of the roto-mould variety that can be sailed shorthanded. ------------- Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 06 Jun 08 at 8:00pm
Being 13.5 stone and sailing an 8.1 in most winds over the range this year he will be perfctly fine as long as he is a competent sailor. Yes it does get a bit of a handful in 20kts+ but then again so does a standard rig Laser. The 8.1 sail is cut much better than the standard sail (bi-redial cut) so it responds much better to use of the cunningham and outhaul than the standard sail. Upwind might be hard work but offwind is superb. I did own a Blaze that I did not sail as much as I would have liked to (and it rewards time in the boat). I went out got a 'cheap' Laser (£1200) and bought an 8.1 rig (£350 all in) so fot £1500 or so I have a boat that is much more fun than a standard in handicap races and I have the option to swtich to the standard rig for fleet races and when it gets too windy for the 8.1 (25kts+). The only other 'luxury' I purchased was the Harken kicker set up as it works so much better with the 8.1 rig than the Holt one (which is just mickey mouse). Just my 2p...but when it somes to 8.1s a qualified 2p.... ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 06 Jun 08 at 8:30pm
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What about a contender? or don't you want to trapezee? ------------- 49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)! http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country |
Posted By: Lukepiewalker
Date Posted: 06 Jun 08 at 8:59pm
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An OK?
------------- Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard" Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch" Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air" Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile" |
Posted By: tmoore
Date Posted: 06 Jun 08 at 9:10pm
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its mainly depends on what you want out of your sailing and what people at your club sail. if you want a fast boat then phantoms and rs300's are good. but if your coming back into sailing then you probably dont want anything too powered up to start with so they arent really that suitable. i would advise a laser. they are slated a lot as being uncomfortable etc, blah blah blah. but on the other hand you can get one good enough for club racing for £1000 and after a year sell it for almost the same amount. that way you can sail it for a year to hone all those skills back and choose what you want to sail next year having hopefully tried a few boats that took your fancy......... ------------- Landlocked in Africa RS300 - 410 Firefly F517 - Nutshell Micro Magic RC yacht - Eclipse |
Posted By: SimpleSimon
Date Posted: 07 Jun 08 at 8:08am
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Thanks for the debate guy's. There's a few boats in there that I hadn't really considered. One that has been mentioned that does seem to float my boat, is the Solution. However there seems to be distinct lack of them on the second hand market! I know it is probably boring but I think for me the answer will be to buy a laser. Reasons:
Right, now I just need a recent, well loved, bargain! |
Posted By: Webmuppet
Date Posted: 07 Jun 08 at 9:53am
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I've been following this thread with great interest, I really enjoy sailing my RS Vareo but I've no budget to travel to open meetings and it probably wouldn't be the 'weapon of choice' for round the cans handicap racing. The Rooster 8.1 looks very good value for me and would probably be more competitive in a mixed fleet especially whilst lake sailing. As I weigh in at a sylph-like 14 stone, the Phantom is probably the most obvious choice for me, especially as there there seems to be an influx of them at our club, however they seem to be very much in demand at the moment and the prices reflect that. I haven't had much experience of sailing Lasers but I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to look out for a half decent one.......might be worth thinking about ? Nigel 
------------- I am the milkman of human kindness, I will leave an extra pint (Billy Bragg) Graduate 2530 'Galaxy' |
Posted By: GBR884
Date Posted: 07 Jun 08 at 10:15am
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Go for it nigel!! Get a phantom and then let me have a go!! I never really liked my laser that much as it wasn't that comfortable (and i couldn't afford a radial rig!! Adam ------------- |
) but there was always people to race against! Thats all changed now at alton....everybodys seems to be getting phantoms so if i was you i'd get a phantom!Posted By: Webmuppet
Date Posted: 07 Jun 08 at 2:45pm
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I reckon that a Rooster 8.1 (or even a full rig Laser) would be considerably cheaper than a Phantom ! There also seems to be an element of 'arms-race' amongst Phantoms....yes, there are quite a few out there but there's a huge variety of variations ranging from wood with tin rigs right through to the latest Vandercraft epoxy hull with loads of carbon bits.....and then there's the option of the flat-cut, medium-cut, deep-cut and 90 % sails - most people seem to own at least two sails. In comparison, a cheap Laser (£400) + a Rooster 8.1 rig (£350) and a new 'non-genuine' full sail (£205) means you might get a reasonably competitive boat for under a grand with some money left over to put towards the uprated controls. Nigel ------------- I am the milkman of human kindness, I will leave an extra pint (Billy Bragg) Graduate 2530 'Galaxy' |
Posted By: Late starter
Date Posted: 07 Jun 08 at 4:06pm
The Phantom is a great boat, but I have to agree that unless you want to spend £5k+ on a recent spec example you'd be way better off going down the old Laser + 8.1 + copy full rig sail route. You do need to think seriously about getting better controls though, when I first got my 8.1 I found the thing had way too much weather helm until I'd updated the 70s style downhaul and kicker - the 8.1 needs way more downhaul than I'd ever use on a standard rig boat. But I've got to agree with Nigel, for just over £1k you can get into a club competitive 8.1 and still have a standard rig to use if you want to class race or sail in a blast. |
Posted By: Splosh
Date Posted: 07 Jun 08 at 5:37pm
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I totally agree with the 8.1 instead of a phanton idea! Nigel, Looking at the prices of Vareos ( http://www.rs-association.com/index.asp?fleet=RS%20Vareo&selection=forsale - http://www.rs-association.com/index.asp?fleet=RS%20Vareo& ;selection=forsale ) there are boats numbered 1** selling close to the £3k range so you could probably sell 'The Shed' around that too (...touch wood lol) and yours is truely bimbled and pimped aswell
Don't you think you may get a bit board without a kite? but then again you'll have people to race with. Mark. ------------- RS300 - 346 :D |
! ! Posted By: chrisclark123
Date Posted: 07 Jun 08 at 6:07pm
Go for it i did the same. found myself a cheap laser hull £800 spent 70 on a new cover bought the 8.1 rig havent looked back. but as said above you will need to update the controls, i made my own 16:1 kicker with bits i had lying around as it doesnt have to be within class rules. Downhaul you'll need to update as you will need that alot!! Chris |
Posted By: kensail
Date Posted: 08 Jun 08 at 4:57pm
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Hi All, Webmuppet has drawn me into this, soooooooooh what dinghy would be advised for me at tenand a half stone. At present I sail a Vario??? Suggestions,(not rude ) would be appreciated ------------- ken |
Posted By: Splosh
Date Posted: 08 Jun 08 at 6:36pm
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Ken, Firstly what don't you like about the Vareo? surely your quite light for it. I'd recomend maybe a laser or even a solution? It all depends what type of sailing you want to do - racing? cruising? or just ploding around enjoying yourself? Its probably best to get out in as many boats as possible and find one you like instead of buying one straight off.
Mark. ------------- RS300 - 346 :D |
Posted By: kensail
Date Posted: 09 Jun 08 at 8:19am
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I love the Vareo, like trying to race it, not very well I have to say, but seem to struggle on the weight issue. Webmuppet has just got me thinking should I change for a more managable bit of kit whilst there is still cash in the Vareo??????????????Kwn. ------------- ken |
Posted By: GBR884
Date Posted: 09 Jun 08 at 9:57am
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Ken...........I'll give you a tenner for the vareo?? But if you really do want to change i think you should probably get a solution, then you can still be sailing with Eddie during the week, and have good racing at the weekends. I'm sure he will let you have a go in it if you want! Adam ------------- |
Posted By: kensail
Date Posted: 09 Jun 08 at 11:27am
Adam, I now know who it is-would you like a smack in the teeth???? Make it £9 and you can have the Shed with it's owner as a free gift. Sorry Nigel, could not resist it. Adam, you realy will have to get some practice in, you brother made your Dad look like an old man on Saturday(older than me)  in fact he smashed everyone, it was great to see. Ken.------------- ken |
Posted By: Splosh
Date Posted: 09 Jun 08 at 8:35pm
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It was perfect wind for me (happilly trapeezing down wind, just perfect). I've never won a race before so to beat a 2nd boat on corrected time by 7 mins was amazing Mark. ------------- RS300 - 346 :D |
...lets hope more is to come Posted By: Villan
Date Posted: 09 Jun 08 at 8:44pm
And a £2750 Vareo offers more pure fun, adrenaline, and speed, with some spare ££ for a beer afterwards ;) I'm actually considering a Solution also ... Right kinda weight, good looking boat, much better suited to the tiny, shifty puddle I sail on! Ken, If you try one, Let me know what its like (so I can then book a test sail if its worthy :P !! ) James ------------- Vareo - 149 "Secrets" http://www.TandyUKServers.co.uk" rel="nofollow - TandyUK Servers |
Posted By: kensail
Date Posted: 09 Jun 08 at 10:24pm
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Thanks James, may well have a chat with our "Ed" see what Nigel has started!
Mark,all I can say is well done, I repeat - "WELL DONE" Wont be around after FRiday for a couple of weeks, sooooooooooh put in another one, or two for me to hear about whe  n I get back from hols.
Ken. ------------- ken |
Posted By: Smight at BBSC
Date Posted: 09 Jun 08 at 10:46pm
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The solution seemed like quite a good boat especially downwind, upwind it felt very short on the waterline but then again i jumped in one straight after being in the 600. Very well set up but not sure about the self lifting centerboard downwind. The boom did feel quite low then again i was sailing in shorts and no shoes trying to avoid the vicious grip they fit to the cockpit.
------------- RS600 988 |
Posted By: GBR884
Date Posted: 10 Jun 08 at 10:15am
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He did very well didn't he!! BUT......Both weeks before that i cruised away from him on the water!! You didn't see last night did you?! I sailed away from him off the line, led the whole fleet around, then sailed the wrong way Yes, £9 for the shed and crew!! Adam ------------- |
Posted By: kensail
Date Posted: 10 Jun 08 at 11:29am
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The way I see it is:- he felt sorry for you Being serious its good to see you both going well. Did Nigel make it? I was stuck at Heathrow, mind you I would have been last in any event. ------------- ken |
Posted By: GBR884
Date Posted: 10 Jun 08 at 4:11pm
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Nigel made it.......he has now been christened Mr Vareo Fleet!! FEELING SORRY FOR ME????? why do i like you ken?! Adam ------------- |
Posted By: kensail
Date Posted: 10 Jun 08 at 4:23pm
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Mr Vareo Fleet m mmmmmmmmmmmmm that will make the old lad very happy!!!
Why do you like me? because i am nice to you! Wish I could have made it, would have been third from last - not bad- not bad.  Just wait until my dam holiday is over  you will see some sailing then Holiday with the Mrs. Bah, humbug, rather be sailing ------------- ken |