Single-handers
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4200
Printed Date: 18 Dec 25 at 12:08pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Single-handers
Posted By: radixon
Subject: Single-handers
Date Posted: 20 May 08 at 5:28pm
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I am keen to move up from the Laser as I believe it is too big for its boots, although there are loads of boats, the cost of parts etc doesnt reflect the fact there are so many. i am looking at the 600 class (but not yet made the leap). It appeals as a good upwind/downwind boat that can be raced competitvely in a variety of wind conditions with the thrill factor built in. |
Replies:
Posted By: foaminatthedeck
Date Posted: 20 May 08 at 6:06pm
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Contender reassonably fast can be handled by the average person (this means that the average sailor can still have tactical racing some thing that I have found hard on faster boats) lots of boat with a range of prices ranges I realy like them  ------------- Lark 2170 |
Posted By: no limits
Date Posted: 20 May 08 at 6:23pm
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currently looking at possible moving out of the laser as i find that unless you are looking to be a olympic hopefully or climbing the youth ranks it gets a little boring. Also the price sails (4.7 sail £360) is stupidliy high. Possible move into a 600 or conteder but depends on minmuim weigths as am under 60kg ------------- |
Posted By: Skiffybob
Date Posted: 20 May 08 at 7:03pm
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Have any of you folks ever seen a Farr 3.7? I saw them in NZ It's a bit dated now, but in my opinion is probably the ideal base for a performace single-hander (although it would benefit from a kite now). 3.7m long, 50Kg, hard chined hull, carbon mast, etc. V quick. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 20 May 08 at 8:21pm
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I sail 2 boats singlehanded. A Firefly and a 1970 International Moth. The former in light winds, the latter when it picks up too much to keep the Firefly flat. Both cheap, both fun. Go play until you find the boat you like. I don't really think there is an "ideal" one, but maybe that is because I have a short attention span! I'd like a singlehanded Firefly fleet at our club. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 20 May 08 at 8:27pm
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I have three to choose from - a streaker for when it is stupidly windy, a contender for when it is nicely windy, and a phantom for when it is light. The contender is the one I race most and we have 3 or 4 at Oxford which makes for decent enough competition. The contender has the wow factor for me - I'm not sure I could handle anything much more high performance, but I do know that at 46 my days are numbered  . Not sure what I'll move into then - possibly get a newer phantom, but it depends on my fitness level and weight.------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: Wrighty
Date Posted: 20 May 08 at 9:06pm
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The lasers were a good class at Carsington but the numbers are down now, The RS700 have taken off big style now. Two phantoms now with a good handicap. I would get a Musto but lots of 700 now so will wait a year or two. Draycote has Three RS300 and a good solo fleet reading draycote forum. If you want to sail a Musto then Rutland is good but 2 hours for me. Ten years ago good fleets at most clubs but now we have problems now with most fleets. So the RS700 are fun and going for 3 grand lots of boat for your money and a good fleet at Carsington with 5 out most weeks soon.
------------- Wrighty |
Posted By: Late starter
Date Posted: 20 May 08 at 9:25pm
| I've sailed most of the non trap newer s/h boats (Blaze, Phantom, EPS, 300 etc) but to be honest the racing experience isn't a patch on sailing against 10-20 Lasers week on week at the club years back. |
Posted By: Smight at BBSC
Date Posted: 20 May 08 at 9:27pm
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You gotta love the 600, then again everyone loves the class they sail otherwise they wouldn't sail it. You get muchos respect if you do well because the boat is such a handful but definatly worth it in the end. ------------- RS600 988 |
Posted By: Wrighty
Date Posted: 20 May 08 at 9:38pm
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I will always love my x RS600 such a great boat and good for round the cans sailing, Good for downwind as well, just before I sold it using gps and vmg it pays to go deep and play the shifts more than the RS700. In the eighties we would get 50 lasers at the shustoke open, and 40 at most opens, lots of larks, ents, lots of most classes urrrr I will shut up now. even the sun was brighter look like the boat to have is the solo if you want good fleet racing only 4900 boats and such a good turnout. ------------- Wrighty |
Posted By: Wrighty
Date Posted: 20 May 08 at 9:48pm
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Where did the Musto go, Nice place to sail Draycote any Mustos now. ------------- Wrighty |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 21 May 08 at 11:56am
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I took the phantom out for a sail yesterday - probably its sixth outing in the ten years I've owned it - and it was great - just get in and sail. If you just want a simple sail, you can get it in a phantom, but I also think the new boats offer plenty of bimble/tweaking opportunities and excellent racing. I do have to say that I found it a handful in the gusts - which weren't heavy - but then, I still have no outhaul control (waiting tfor the blocks to arrive) and I can't depower the rig much (it is too antiquated) so it definitely is my light wind option. ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 21 May 08 at 12:40pm
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I think that American build it yourself thing, the Swiftsolo is the most
beautiful sailing thing around. I just couldn't be asked to build it and what a waste off our beach. No, the ideal Single Hander remains 380 long with a 9.5Rig A traditional Raceboard. But if there were ever a single hander with a centreboard, kick up rudder, assym chute and racks sufficient to equalise lightweights or light enough to use a small high AR rig, I'd certainly give it some consideration. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 21 May 08 at 12:51pm
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Well that's been a success then hasn't it - Not.
No-ones made one yet, if they had surely there would be a photo? |
Posted By: chrisg
Date Posted: 21 May 08 at 1:15pm
We are up to 9 RS300's now so you are guaranteed that at least someone else will be out week in week out. We still sail in fast handicap fleet though, not off our own start but hey ho you can't have everything.... |
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 21 May 08 at 1:26pm
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I have been resisting commenting because as someone said - everyone loves their own class! But I really really really love my 300! I've had (at least) one since the first year (bought it off plans at the Boatshow). The sailing experience is just so rewarding that I really couldn't care if the fleet is small (although clearly its better if its bigger). Also the racing is generally ridiculously close, so a 4 boat fleet often feels like 10! It's also really reassuring that the hul rig etc is both limited in terms of boat-bimbling so you know you are in the boat park for speed, and also completley bombptroof And I say that having sailed just about all of the UK boats on the list above. PS - I have 2 at the moment - 506 is for sail. PM me! |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 21 May 08 at 1:38pm
But they have built an AltO and I've now seen one in the flesh, would have bought it off the stand they wouldn't sell. The blaze as far as I know doesn't have a CB although they did a version for the French market with one, but I've not seen one over here and have lost track of blaze development, it was due to be built over Sandwich way. It has no trapeze which is the challenge I wanted to face and the bit that never totally gelled with the MPS. The other thing that I'd like to mess with is that foiling moth but I think I'd have trouble with the wavelength we have and I doubt I'm an experienced enough helm just yet, I still don't have what I'd call "autopilot" mode to rely on when disaster threatens. Someone just selling plans of something he has not been prepared to build and campaign himself smacks of mild confidence trickery.. I hope I'm wrong, but you do have to ask why. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 21 May 08 at 2:04pm
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GRF, it is the Buzz you are thinking of that the french put a C/B in. The Blaze comes equipped with a pivoting board as standard, I believe. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Alex C
Date Posted: 21 May 08 at 2:05pm
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The Blaze does have a centreboard (fairly sure). I think it's the Buzz you are thinking about which has a centreboard version, it was developed for the sailing schools in France where the Buzz is/was a popular training boat. ------------- |
Posted By: Alex C
Date Posted: 21 May 08 at 2:08pm
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Too late.. ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 21 May 08 at 2:20pm
Doh 
So now I have to try and remember what it was I didn't like about the blaze, maybe I hadn't spotted that. There was one in the club but it never beat us in the 3000 so I guess I thought it was just to slow. The guy who had it now helms the 470 that's a constant source of irritation and now considerable expense.. Given the old adage if you can't beat em fairly bring out the chequebook.. |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 21 May 08 at 4:54pm
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Another vote for the 600 over here, its such a delight to windward, and no slouch off wind either. It's just a shame about the lack of fleet racing. But the look on the laser sailors face as you go past them just standing on the side deck going twice the speed and pointing pretty much the same angle cannot be beaten. I'm not quite sure about the "respect if you do well" thing, the only time i managed to win a race on handicap all the laser sailors had a massive whinge about my handicap but they didn't manage to get it changed. ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: Wrighty
Date Posted: 21 May 08 at 10:59pm
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Hi Jim, I missed three weeks on the 700 and on sailing it after on week four, I had gone backwards, so see your point, I sail two or three times a week now for six months, have mastered it now. It has cost me bigtime, no money to get my mps, keeping the 700 then add the mps later, but will have to work more hours soon. The phantoms are growing at Carsington 2 out tonight. good news about the nine RS300 at draycote, we have 2 at Carsington and a growing solo fleet 7 out Sunday. ------------- Wrighty |
Posted By: GarethT
Date Posted: 22 May 08 at 8:22am
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I've never enjoyed another singlehander as much as the OK on a stupidly windy day. Wish I still had one.
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Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 22 May 08 at 9:36am
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I had an OK. For me it was not a pleasant sailing experience - the boom is ridiculously low (and this is coming from a contender sailor) and the boat weighed a ton. The hiking position was not exactly comfy either. That being said, they do have decent competition, including in Europe. I had a Europe once too - same problem with the boom, the other difficulty being I was too fat. ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: Philsy
Date Posted: 22 May 08 at 9:36am
What's this? The blaze doesn't have a spinnaker, does it? ------------- |
Posted By: MRJP BUZZ 585
Date Posted: 22 May 08 at 10:10am
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Not normally but someone added a spinni for their own fun
------------- Josh Preater http://www.bu22.co.uk">  BUZZING IS FUN
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Posted By: GarethT
Date Posted: 22 May 08 at 10:29am
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The boom isn't low .... maybe your head was too high! It may be close to the deck, but the cockpit gives you plenty of room under the boom. And at 72kg isn't the OK significantly lighter than the Contender? |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 22 May 08 at 11:07am
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I don't think my OK weighed 72kg! It was quite an old one! But yes, it was lighter than the contender, but because the contender has the wow factor - for me - then I can forgive it its sins! I think it's probably that I just don't like hiking much....  ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: Matt Jackson
Date Posted: 22 May 08 at 12:53pm
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Contender hull weight is 83kg ------------- Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36 |
Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: 22 May 08 at 5:13pm
Heard that Rondar are going to try and sell the Blaze in the US with a new bigger rig. Big bottoms need big sails |
Posted By: blaze720
Date Posted: 22 May 08 at 10:45pm
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1) Every Blaze has a Centreboard - always has. 2) Some Blazes have tried a 'second' sail - unlikely to be adopted. 3) We are however working with a sailmaker and are choosing a taller mast, possibly in carbon and possibly rotating to produce a 'big guys' large rig derivative. Current boat does 70-95 kg very nicely indeed - and there are notable exceptions who are above and below this band who can shine as well note. 4) If it all comes together a new 'big blokes' class will be launched in the Autumn. It will not be a Blaze and will not race directly with the Blaze class. BUT the use of a common hull, (now revised and in epoxy) wings and boom (and a lot of demand for Blazes in the market) takes a lot of the risk away from starting a new class aimed at larger guys - 95 - 115+kg - i.e. if it were to fail the bulk of the cost can be recycled (sold !) into a growing class where there is demand - so less risk for all involved. 5) We will be running the wings slightly narrower than in the Blaze - the aim is not to make an especially fast Blaze - our aim is to really make a modern alternative 'big guys class'. One that does not necessarily make it 'easy' for mere 80/90kg blokes to make off with all the chocolates too much of the time. So a bit less leverage and about 15-20% more sail (square head) on a taller mast (7.0m in place of 6.5m) should help the cause. 6) Yes - it is being aimed beyond the UK - and not just because of Norbert's assertion ...but if enough demand becomes apparent here who knows ! 7) We have no name for the creation - yet ! Anyone got any ideas ? 8) Lastly - anyone think it would/could work here ? We really are listening and need more input from a few of those who it might suit. Mike L - aka Cirrus Raceboats |
Posted By: rs405
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 9:51am
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I'm a lightweight myself but I think you could be on to a winner. Rooster 8.1 laser rigs seem to be selling well and thats a similar idea isn't it? They cant compete in laser events but using a common hull etc... Can anyone tell me more about the second sail idea? Is it a well documented conversion/upgrade? I'm after a new blasting toy and the Blaze with a kite would be just the thing as I'm not really into racing beyond club level so the lack of class aproval isnt really an issue. And an MPS or 700 would probably lead me to a messy death. ------------- 420, 470, 405, laser 4000 |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 10:39am
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So if a Blaze were fitted with a spinnaker and the racks made compatible
with trapezing, how different would the performance be compared to the MPS? It would certainly be more suitable to our launch recovery issues. I assume it has a kick up rudder as well. |
Posted By: 29er310
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 10:42am
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I think it wouldn't be comparable speed wise due to the hull shape and weight, the MPS was designed with trapezing and having an assy in mind, there would have to be some serious modification to the deck moulds and the hull strength to make it work properly. ------------- ---------------------- International 14 GBR1485 29er 310 for sale Laser 138462 for sale Optimist 4626 For sale |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 10:44am
The OK is a great boat, i loved mine. The boom isnt actually that low because the cockpit is so deep! My boat wasnt heavy either in fact it was quite light in compassion to things like contenders and my old boat was 2 kg over weight!! ------------- |
Posted By: blaze720
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 10:51am
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Turnturtle We are not developing it specifically for the UK for the very reasons you mention plus the UK in isolation is simply too small for a new 'heavyweights' special today. The derivative will initially tackle a niche overseas where we have potential distribution and have been asked to produce a version for 'bigger people'. The boat will not be a Blaze to all intents and purposes and will only be offered here if there is enough domestic demand. The use of a lot of 'off the shelf' Blaze hardware and hull however is sensible for all sorts of obvious reasons. If it is offered here from the early owners point of view it takes away most of the risk of buying into a new niche class - the risk that it might not prosper and owners end up with an unsaleable white elephant. Obviously as 90% of the kit can be recycled as a Blaze and sold into a class with plenty of 'used' demand it takes the perceived and actual risk away. This 'fear of class failure' has been the most significant single factor, to our mind that, that has prevented a really new 'large guys' single sail, single hander appearing for decades. Reducing wing width and increasing mast height and sail area is aiming squarely at the 100kg category and we are intentionally making it less appealing to relative lightweights and 'medium weights' - we have the Blaze for that here and now overseas. The use of a single one-design mast and single source one-design sail will restrict the ability of these 'lightweights' to depower by buying expensive custom sails / spars and so it should still favour the original 'heavier' target category in 5+ years from now as well as keeping ownership costs very reasonable. Mike .... aka Cirrus Raceboats |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 11:12am
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Hi all, 2 put in my 2p as an ex Blaze sailor and a current 8.1 sailor (sorry Mike). The Blaze is a great boat, it is relatively easy to sail but difficult to sail well. As for the comment made about assymetrics and trapezing believe me once the boats gets going you really dont want any more sail unless you are doing windward leeward courses all the time. Get a Blaze on a reach and it will cream pretty much anything else in the same class (Phantom, 8.1). With the wide racks it is also a joy to sail, lots of room and when i was fully out on the racks in mine I was pretty much trapezing off the edge of the hull (people were very wary of getting upwind of me). All in all a great boat. So why you might ask did I get rid of it. Simple like TT and his Musto I just don't have the time to dedicate to getting the perfomance out of it as it does reward tme in the boat. I know with a Laser i can pretty much jump in to it and be competitive at club level. The 8.1 just adds an extra twist for handicap races where I stand a chance against the local Phantoms where in the lighter stuff the Blaze was slightly outclassed. Good luck with the new venture Mike, the bonus is that the 'heavier' people coul convert by buying the new righ and racks and then stick the standard stuff back on for Opens and Nationals. That is what i do with the Laser so i get the best of both worlds (we still have a class start for the Laser). Paul ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 11:26am
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So that's that then, still nothing exciting yet do able for lightweight single
handers with a job and TOW limitations looking for a bit more excitement than dull as ditchwater laser sailing at coastal venues with launching problems. |
Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 11:46am
You could always sail somewhere else. I heard that there are quite a few of these sailing club places around the coast.... ------------- Needs to sail more... |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 11:54am
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Hmm let me think now, tough choice.
a) Leave work, half an hour later be on the clear blue water still warm in the evening sun like last night, enjoy an hours race, a home cooked meal in the club and a couple of drinks with our new found racing friends. Or b)Leave work, take down the mast, tie it all on, make sure the trailor plate is working, tow the boat for miles inland, re -erect mast and screw about with settings, launch onto some dirty brown puddle, race around cans, maybe meet folk maybe not, take down mast repeat getting ready for the road procedure, risk another side swiping by HGV Eastern European Cowboy, arrive back at the height of operation stack.... Hmm, yes, tough choice. |
Posted By: Smight at BBSC
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 12:03pm
No GRF he's saying you could move permantly 
------------- RS600 988 |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 12:06pm
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Let me guess?
To Whitstable? And marry my sister. 
|
Posted By: 29er310
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 12:22pm
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What is your thing about whitstable and inbreeding? ------------- ---------------------- International 14 GBR1485 29er 310 for sale Laser 138462 for sale Optimist 4626 For sale |
Posted By: scullyman
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 12:22pm
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First posting so sorry if I've repeated anything that's been said before. I've read this thread with interest being a former Laser sailor who's contemplating what singlehander to buy next. My first observation is - singlehander with no trapeze, a kite and decent performance? Why has nobody mentioned the Vareo? OK, so I haven't heard much about fleets but it looks like a decent boat. In my view, having thought about it over the past couple of months, the one slight disappointment of the singlehanded scene in the UK is the fleet fragmentation. There are loads of great singlehanders in the country but as we're all sailing different boats you're (almost) stuck with the Laser if you want decent fleet racing anywhere. The 300 looks like a great boat but fleets are limited and second hand costs are relatively high - there isn't a great supply of second hand boats and the ones at the cheaper end of the market are often thrashed. The OK is a cracker as well but getting a competitive second hand boat is a challenge and fleets are limited. The Blaze is currently in a similar position but seems to be working hard to rectify it. Phantom - lovely looking boat but I'm not really big enough. Ditto Solo - but I'm not really old enough ( ;-) ). I'm not really looking for a trapeze boat so can't say much about the 6, 7 or MPS. So what am I left with? Yup, unless something to the contrary pops up in a week or two I'm going to be throwing some cash at a now ridiculously overpriced beach boat that has become an Olympic racer by default.. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 12:39pm
Not been there then?
Oh and welcome scullyman nice to read new perspectives.. |
Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 1:04pm
You haven't been to Milbrook have you? Capital of inbreeding. ------------- Needs to sail more... |
Posted By: 29er310
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 1:15pm
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I have been there many a time, admittidly its a slightly odd place but thats no different from anywhere around the east kent coast, if you want to see inbreeding the alps are the place to go. ------------- ---------------------- International 14 GBR1485 29er 310 for sale Laser 138462 for sale Optimist 4626 For sale |
Posted By: Chris Turner
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 1:37pm
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[QUOTE=G.R.F]So that's that then, still nothing exciting yet do able for lightweight single handers with a job and TOW limitations looking for a bit more excitement than dull as ditchwater laser sailing at coastal venues with launching problems. Solution? (baby Phantom) or Bantom as it is called at LRSC |
Posted By: MikeBz
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 1:51pm
| He did say 'exciting'.... |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 2:21pm
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The Solution is a good boat but a bit of a pig upwind, as is the Vareo (from what I am told). The Solution offwind is superb, it accelerates smoothly and it a real joy. Where it really loses out against other single handers of a similar size is dead downwind because of its stayed mast. An 8.1 is a good option because you get the best of both worlds (ie stick the standard rig on and go class racing). As for exciting lightwieght single handers there is the international Moth of course where you have to be no heavier than a couple of feathers! Just my 2p of course.... Persoanally scullyman I would get out there and beg goes in a few different classes before you decide what to invest in. ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: scullyman
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 2:23pm
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Hi all, I'm going to have to tar the Solution with the same brush as the 300 for the time being... looks like a lovely boat (it is one I've looked at before) but fleet racing in the South is a no-no. Not only that but availability of boats is limited. One thing I'm conscious of is that there's a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation here. There are few fleets so people don't buy the boats so the fleets don't grow, hence we don't get the concentration we need. There's two solutions to this: either we just put up with it or go down the "Olympic" road and aim to get most active racers who aren't sailing Lasers into another class (effectively restricting the number of classes in a continental fashion). This is great for racing but I bet if you're in one of the classes that ends up as minority people wouldn't be too pleased...! What's interesting is the number of people who sail in more than one class to get the amount of racing they're looking for. It's been mentioned on another thread but be it Steve C in... everything he can get his hands on, Goody in a Streaker, the guys in Lasers / Finns / OKs and even Solos - does this mean that if we could get loads of people into one class we'd have a great racing circuit across the country? You never know, you might even attract some of those Laser sailors who would love a "better" boat (and I loved my Laser, btw) but don't want to sacrifice fleet racing. All I know is that I don't have an answer... I just want a boat! Paul |
Posted By: scullyman
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 2:25pm
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Sorry, other Paul, was typing whilst you were posting... I'd be interested to know who says the Solution / Vareo are pigs upwind? Bet it's not Laser sailors! |
Posted By: scullyman
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 2:28pm
Last one for the time being... by "amount" I also mean variety and I appreciate that Steve has more than one reason for racing different classes! |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 2:33pm
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It's just a lovely looking boat that Solution, I saw it at the show, I wasn't
even looking for a single hander, it just had a shape that looked "right" it was next door to the phantoms another great looking boat. 
There was nobody about to talk to, it was a bit first thing, they probably hadn't got there yet and anyway I then went into the other hall and fell instantly in Love. But like all women, she's keeping me waiting. |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 2:37pm
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Scullyman, You have kind of answered you own question here. If you want fleet racing in a single hander you need to see what is sailed fleet wise at your local club. The normally means Laser/Solo but there are pockets of other single handers. Burghfield has around 14 Blaze's. Northampton I believe has quite a few Phantoms. This is why I went for an 8.1, I have a giggle in the handicap races using the 8.1 sail. Then when fleet racing happens I can fleet race (although I am overweight by quite a way for an inland Laser sailor). You pays your money you takes your choice.... ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 2:46pm
It is Vareo and Solution sailors on the whole. With the Solutions as soon as the wind starts to pick up they have to start footing off as they cannot rake the rig anymore. This is why the provisional PY has dropped from 1066 to 1070 to try and offset this. Part of the issue was that they used Phantom sailors when they were developing the boat and they could handle more power. Personally when i borrowed a Solution for a couple of hours i found it really hard work upwind (a Laser is not too bad, it is all down to technique) lots of weather helm. As soon as you crack off though it flies. I have no first hand experience of the Vareo and can only go on what other have said, it does seem to have a bit of a reputation for being slow and hard work upwind (althoght they all say the offwind experience more than makes up for that). Paul ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 2:47pm
I don't think the Streaker should be overlooked for middle weights. Does brilliantly on handicap, new builders available and numbers are growing. I may well be out in one on Sunday, especially if it's breezy, and would hope to do pretty well. ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 2:59pm
|
Here's another single hander, the Supernova, quite a few of them in our club
and they have been known to not only win on handicap, but over the water as well. Quite light to manhandle, high volume so good in light wind and a good weight carrier. There, positive about another class. |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 3:02pm
Where is GRF and what have you done with him! ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 3:12pm
|
Then there's the Vortex an easy route into trapezing.
And I'm not p1ssed Nor am I particularly upbeat what with pikeys on Hythe Green and operation stack in full swing, you lot just have me all wrong (which makes it even funnier). |
Posted By: scullyman
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 3:33pm
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Interesting. I may incite a degree of hatred here but in my personal opinion (and I'm not saying that I'm correct) the Streaker doesn't really do it for me. And the Vortex... I remember when people were saying that it was The Next Big Thing. One observation that I'd make as a result of this is that we have a LOT of singlehander classes aiming at the same target market! This as the point I was trying to make before... either we're happy with it or some degree of rationalisation is necessary. For instance, ignoring boats designed for mentalists, like Moths and Canoes, and boats for people who like to wash their cake down with gravy
Sorry to any classes that I've missed. But it's lot, isn't it? I can see 3 distinct groups here:
Ignoring the EPS for a minute, the 3 and Blaze have created little niches for themselves and are both great boats. The Laser's got it's own thing happening. But there's confusion between the rest... I can understand why you'd want to differentiate between a boat that was good inland to one that was good on the sea. What about one that was happy with both? What's the difference, for instance, between the Supernova and the Solution? (And I'm not trying to offend anyone here - I'm sure they're both great boats). We release new boats to keep up to date with latest trends in development but what does this do for one-design racing? Will we end up one day with hundreds of classes at different stages of evolution, from Streakers where wood is still fast to something made out of non-asbestos causing carbon nanotubes? I admit that I've got myself overexcited but it's a difficult place to be if you fancy something just a little bit more... I don't even know what the word is but just more... than the Laser. So there! Anyone got any decent ideas?! |
Posted By: Jon711
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 3:59pm
|
A Blaze for heavyweights - great idea surely the name must be an Inferno.... With the Blaze class getting approximatly 50 boats for the last three years (at least since I bought mine), I would of thought that it counted as a class for good championship racing. Expecting over 50 at this years nationals next weekend.. Not sure if it's my imagination, but the Soloution mainsail looks like a copy of the Blaze... Jon Blaze 711 |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 4:28pm
|
Nice Rack
Get a trapeze on her - right away. |
Posted By: ellistine
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 4:42pm
| Is that Rooster Pro Hikers she's wearing? Perhaps worn a little too high. |
Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 6:13pm
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Built-in buoyancy aid. ------------- http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC 
|
Posted By: Jon711
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 6:50pm
| Well I would certainly like to give her a good bashing to windward.... |
Posted By: Chris Bridges
Date Posted: 23 May 08 at 6:54pm
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49er with ladders bolted on? . Someone did it at Weymouth once... Death wish!! ------------- 49er GBR735 (for sale) - Rutland SC |
Posted By: tack'ho
Date Posted: 24 May 08 at 8:02pm
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Being right at the top of the lightweights singlehander weight range, and therefore at the bottom of the mid weights (71kgs), and as old age creeps up not getting lighter, I have been reading this thread with great interest. So of the mid weights Solo errrr not really very exciting is it! Solution it might be pretty and well built but if I can't hold it down upwind when its windy I aint interested (sorry Chris!) Steaker, mmmmm just can't get over the telegraph pole mast having had the joys of whippy carbon (Europe and Byte) 300 see solution (been there!) Blaze, interesting should try a sail but for some reason doesn't grab me! Laser, local fleet racing, local fleet racing.......etc The future sadly looks a bit fixed.....must try to loose some pounds, or buy a red band mast for the europe!!! ------------- I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e! |
Posted By: andymck
Date Posted: 24 May 08 at 9:06pm
|
Just for the record, the solution is not a pig upwind. I won the nationals
last year sailing at 75kg. It was sailed in a force 4-6 on the first day, and most of the fleet had no problems going upwind. I must admit that when I first got the boat I could not make it go upwind in a blow at all, although usually faster than the Blaze which has given us the bad press. The rig was originally set up by a couple of Phantom sailors, and needed a lot more rake than the "factory" settings. Yes you have to work hard, but I would never step back in a Laser except at Minorca sailing. It is now joy to sail upwind as long as you dont get caught above a stuffing laser, the rig does have to be Firefly loose. The handicap issue has been debated at length within the class, and as the person who suggested the level of 1070, I can say that it had nothing to do with the reasons that Paul has suggested. The issue was in fact that most of the boats were then sailing at clubs that had Phantoms and other generously handicapped boats such as Merlins where many classes struggle to make an impact. There were several of us in the class that wanted to keep it to 1066, but as the handicap should reflect the general standard of the class as a whole, the decision was made to recommend 1070 when we became RYA affiliated. I suspect it may creep up a couple of numbers as with a stayed rig it does suffer on a dead run compared to the laser. Looking at the recent open results there have been a variety of weights on the podium, from about 60-83 kg. Having spent almost a year out of sailing due to exams, I cant wait to get back up to speed, and the only hiking single hander that would tempt me away is a foiling moth, although if I put on a lot of weight a Phantom would be a possibility. The people I know who have left the class have said it was due to knee problems and the double floor, which many double floored boats suffer from. If anyone wants to know what a Solution is really like, please message me, although to sum it up, easy to sail, but needs time to get to know it to sail fast. AndyMck ------------- Andy Mck |
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 24 May 08 at 9:10pm
|
[ The 300 looks like a great boat but fleets are limited and second hand Hate to challenge your first post Scullyman - but: 1. 300s are pretty much bullet-proof. So yes they have worked hard but there will be little wrong with them - have a look at the profile of sail numbers at our Nats for example. Those low number boats are not one careful owner! 2. 5 second hand boats on rs300.org.uk at the moment. 3. Fleets consistently building with a critical mass probably now achieved. and the racing is so tight that 10 boats feels like 20! Matt |
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 24 May 08 at 9:12pm
| Nor is the 300 actually that hard to hold down upwind. I'm not the man to comment at 90+kg - but we have some firmly in the lower end of the mid weight bracket who are fast in anything. |
Posted By: marcus3292
Date Posted: 24 May 08 at 9:31pm
|
im 14 1/2 stone and got a phantom, so my vote goes there, ive had a supersofa was a nice little yot but phantoms better, they arer nicer to sail and quicker, tryed a blaze didnt like it, solo was good but to small would have one when im to old for the phantom, i used to sail lightnings and they are a cracking boat, highly underrated.
------------- phantoms kick a**e (when sailed well) |
Posted By: tack'ho
Date Posted: 24 May 08 at 9:34pm
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Actually to be fair upwind is fine (in 300) for light weights as is downwind, I found the reach of death a pain though!!! ps. Must test sail a solution then. ------------- I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e! |
Posted By: endoscool
Date Posted: 28 May 08 at 11:28am
|
Just as I would expect any serious Ferrari, Porsche or whatever
driving petrolhead not to emerge without
a grin from a drive in an original Mini, so too with the Streaker. You cannot
judge a book by it's cover so too a dinghy just by it’s mast design. In defence
of the Streaker – go try one! pm me if you want help in fixing it up. |
Posted By: blaze720
Date Posted: 28 May 08 at 11:59am
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Its an old one really - try any and all that you like the look of ..... there is something out there for just about every taste and approach. Talk to the CA's, ignore the obvious bias if possible and just sail. Mike L. |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 28 May 08 at 12:56pm
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I agree with endoscool - I was sceptical about the streaker, especially given I'm quite heavy, but I tried one and was very impressed. One of the nicer mid weight single handers.
------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: djdhi
Date Posted: 28 May 08 at 3:01pm
|
HI, ref singlehanders one of your commentators mentions the Streaker, pointing out it has a mast like a telegraph pole. He is actually a bit out of date, some top Streaker sailors sail with very bendy masts and slack rigging so on a reach they get a mast bend like a Laser.TRY ONE | djdhi |
Posted By: tack'ho
Date Posted: 29 May 08 at 1:40pm
|
Really that interesting because I was under the impression the Streakers mast section was one design (holt or evolution supplied). And if you place next to either my Byte or Europe mast then I think you might see it's a little on the chunky side! Which is a shame, as I've said before I wish more classes were more open with their rigs. This would open the competative weights at club level massively. Of course it's all a bit of a joke, so many of these boats are so similar in speed...Europe, Streaker, Byte, Laser Radial, Solo that you could vitually sail the against each other. The difference in abilty of the sailors would contribute a lot more than the diffrences in pure boat speed. ------------- I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e! |
Posted By: shruikanshade
Date Posted: 29 May 08 at 7:32pm
|
Surprised there's been little mention of Musto Skiffs in this thread. Im not very experienced in one myself, as ive just bought mine, and im still spending a fair bit of time swimming (it being my first real trapeze boat), but the other guys who sail one at QMSC say theres nothing like the feeling of flying past almost everyone else on the water (with the constant exception of a particular Foiling Moth). Plus, who hasnt dreamed of blasting downwind on the racks with the kite trying to take off and everyone else thinking Oh My God thats cool... |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 29 May 08 at 8:23pm
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I'm slacking ... ------------- |
Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 29 May 08 at 9:34pm
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It's not because you're slacking, Rick. Only because it's self-evident. In answer to the question "What makes a good single-hander?", people might feel enclined to extoll the virtues of Lasers and other Streakers (bad image in my club, unless you're the other side of 70, wearing a beard and smoking a pipe between races As I said, it's self-evident
------------- http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC
|
Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 29 May 08 at 9:37pm
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Oh, and there's the other end of the ability scale:
------------- http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC
|
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 29 May 08 at 10:32pm
Yeah; you can see that below ...
------------- |
Posted By: DaveL
Date Posted: 29 May 08 at 11:41pm
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who needs foils?
------------- Contender GBR443 National 12 - 2859 "Dogmatic" |
Posted By: shruikanshade
Date Posted: 30 May 08 at 12:03am
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Eh? I can only assume you meant hydrofoils, that or you're content to drift uncontrollably with the winds. |
Posted By: sten
Date Posted: 30 May 08 at 9:21am
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Foils who needs them in light / medium winds you dont need the rudder and you can go upwind and tack without the dagger board but its not that fast, its not too clever downwind though. rudderless worth trying to get a good appreciation of how balanced your boat and sails are and how the balance changes with your position. nice windy pic rick I lost my hat that day :) |
Posted By: shruikanshade
Date Posted: 30 May 08 at 2:16pm
| Is that just a new sail design, or have they redesigned the mast/foils/hull as well? |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 30 May 08 at 2:30pm
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Dosn't look right to me; the rig & hull just don't match ... ------------- |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 30 May 08 at 2:43pm
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Christ the sails are expensive enough at the moment let alone the price they would charge for a fully battend laminate sail!!!!!!!! ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 30 May 08 at 2:56pm
Hmm maybe not, as dacron sails and having been around a while, their sails would have attracted the high duty rate that woven fabrics attract, whereas that sail is monofilm and attracts no duty, it's why windsurf sails have been made that way for so long, the duty on the landed cost before mark up seriously affects the RRP and from memory it was 12-14%. |
Posted By: shruikanshade
Date Posted: 30 May 08 at 3:51pm
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Lol, dont mean to be too pedantic, but don't skiffs need a trapeze to qualify as a skiff? Still amusing tho...is there a confirmed "release" date for this "skiff"? |
Posted By: Oli
Date Posted: 30 May 08 at 3:54pm
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funniest thing ever! ------------- https://skiff-media.teemill.com/" rel="nofollow - T-SHIRTS https://www.photo4me.com/profile/23908/" rel="nofollow - PRINTS |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 30 May 08 at 3:58pm
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I hate the term skiff, its a word developed by people with complex's about the size of the genitals, who think that owning something with loads of sail area makes them more attractive to the oposite sex! (unless its in reference to Musto etc which have the word in its name) ------------- |
Posted By: ifoxwell
Date Posted: 30 May 08 at 4:16pm
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So why do people think that there loads of laser wanna-be hiking single handers out there with very few notable exceptions, but only one with a kite! Ian |
Posted By: tack'ho
Date Posted: 30 May 08 at 5:26pm
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Laser wannabes!!! Dude I think you need to check the design date on a lot of these wannabes and compare it to the design date for the laser! And while you at it try to work out why they are still nicer boats to sail even though they are older ------------- I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e! |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 30 May 08 at 5:57pm
exactly right - 127 boats in Italy for the contender Europeans can't be wrong! (so why am I still here? )------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: tack'ho
Date Posted: 30 May 08 at 6:00pm
|
Do you have to have special mirrors on them to see the front? ------------- I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e! |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 30 May 08 at 6:27pm
I'm 98% sure that isn't a Laser production. Same thing as the Rooster rig AIUI.
Oh nonsense... its a term used for a specific style and ancestry of boat (well actually several - the Australian open dinghies, the skiff moths and rowing boats all spring to mind). What irritates me is when classes that have absolutely nothing of the skiff heritage about them call themselves skiffs - like, err, the Musto Skiff, % Tonner etc. |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 30 May 08 at 6:50pm
|
Oh come on Jim don't start that old bandwagon again .. http://www.answers.com/topic/skiff - http://www.answers.com/topic/skiff n. A flatbottom open boat of shallow draft, having a pointed bow and a square stern and propelled by oars, sail, or motor. [Middle English skif, from Old French esquif, from Old Italian schifo, of Germanic origin.] A Musto Skiff is just as much a skiff as an 18fter ... ------------- |